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It doesn't have to be dragged through the courts though does it. As mentioned if another local school allows the outfit then her school have little reason to continue their ban.
And what evidence does the school have of Muslims labelling each other good or bad in issues like this? It sounds like a condescending assumption to me to justify ulterior motives.
Do schools have a problem with Orthodox Jewish children bragging over their ringlets or strict Catholics taunting other Catholics over their non-attendance at least weeks Confession?
I wonder if the school has actually made the effort to ask the opinion of the local Imam or any Muslim expert on Islamic beliefs?
Actually yes they did, as mentioned in my earlier posts, it was said that, the dress (bibjab) was not a required garnment of religion, it was perfectly acceptable to wear the headdress.
But i will agree that as the other muslims do not have a problem it is very 'show-off' to those who cannot wear it.
And thankyou for your examples but yes you do see the "i am better than you argument" If a CofE child calls themselve CofE but never attends church then the one who ttends church will say i am more religious than you.
It does happen, kids are kids, it will happen and this girl is provoking it!
Looked at your previous posts and all I saw was a reference to what the other muslim kids had said, if I missed something please c&p as I am referring to experts or Imams.
The 'i am better than you' argument - so do you think that schools where this occurs should take steps to end this as they are trying to do in this case?
I have seen Muslim students wearing the dress in Bristol at school, college and University level all my life and have never heard of any problem being caused between pupils.
Can anybody show me an example where a pupils similair devotion to their religious beliefs has proved detrimental to other pupils?
Kids will always come out with the 'I am better than you' argument even if the uniform is followed, they did when I was at school.
Simple you make allowances for religious and cultural beliefs. At my school, Jehovahs Witnesses were given permission to not attend assemblies on production of a note from their parents.
The same applied to parents for whatever reason who didn't wish their child to take part in sex education lessons.
If you have Muslims Jews Hindus Jehovahs Witnesses Christians of All denominations how can you have an assembly at all?
Also what about the law that states that a daily act of Christian worship is compulsory for pupils in state schools?
Not at all unpractical I attended one as do many other people and there were no problems. As for assemblies, ours were predominently Christian based but on other religions holy days the teachers took the opportunity to use the assmbly to tell us what they were about.
Children are born without prejudice and naturally curious, schools can be a great place to learn tolerance. Would you like to have the situation we have in Northern Ireland and parts of Scotland where the children are only educated with 'their own kind'? Great breeding grounds for the hatred and secterianism that continue to blight those areas.
Is a school not an ideal place for those who wish to express and practise their culture and religion which the government wants to promote?
Lastly in the Muslim religion I know it is against their law for a girls on many occasions to mix with boys, how can a multi faith school uphold such rules?
It will and does happen but on a far lesser scale than in the NI or Scotland wouldn't you agree? Segregated enclaves? do you mean the Ulster problem? In England there are many historical reasons for this occuring and its not all through choice, far from it.
Neither I or you are experts on the Muslim faith, I mainly speak from my own experiences and I can tell you in practice most Muslims attend and always have attended mixed sex schools.
I would agree a school is an ideal place, to learn about other cultures and religions, it certainly worked for me. The main cause of racism is ignorance and schools are there to promote learning.
TTFN, essays to write.
BA
In England there is an areas of the cities dominated by different religions, odviously not 100% each religion but nonetheless those areas are segregated because of religion in the first place. True? Well surely then if people want to live in seperate areas they have a right to have their own schools also?
School may be a good place to learn about other people but do you deny people the right to attend religious schools? If so should the mixed schools abide by the law enforcing a daily act of Christian worship or should no children be permitted to worship? Although you perhaps not have a daily act of Christian worship for the whole school do you still allow those who wish to attend prayer meetings and those from muslim backgrounds worship seperately also? Should the school allow headscarfs and change the uniform rules? and allow those from the Jedi faith to weild lightsabres?
In Muslim sharia however it does not advocate the mixing of sexes on many occasions. Other religions have different laws so how do you make a school rule book?
its just this girl and her family have decided to take it upon themselves to force the school to wear clothes which are actually not a part of the religion, just her and families culture
the school has been reasosnable as it has allowed clothing which ALL the childrens religions have been satisfied
Well instead of putting the debate in terms of individual ownership we could put in terms of a the use of scarce resources.
Some institution has provided the finance for the business, this finance is scarce and comes from all society.
Thus to pretend this shopkeeper is in some way isolated from society is exactly that, a pretence.
He has been granted access to societies resources and society has some say in how he best uses them.....
becky, you ignored my point about blind-rule following, do you accept that Abu Ghraib prison wardens should follow rules by obeying orders to torture prisoners?
WHY did the girl decide to stay and SUE the school when she decided to wear something else?
If she believed her religious needsweren't being met she should have buggered off and saved the school time and money.
People blindly follow the rules, it's in our nature. yes, many of us question rules in hindsight, but how many times have you deliberately broken an order made by a uniformed official. If a policeman in the street told you to pick up some litter, you'd do it. I had a kid kicking a bottle at people the other week, he didn't drop it, was never his. But he still picked it up when I told him to. Why do people do this?
I suggest you read up on either Zimbardo's prison experiment, or Milgrams experiment on authority figures.
When those guards at Abu-Ghraib tortured those prisoners, and likewise when the Nazi guards shot all the Jews, gays etc when acting on orders, they are doing so out of a percieved fear of what might happen if they don't.
A lot of people are resigned to the fact as well in situations like this that if they don't do it, someone else will and will recieved the credit.
'Ghettoes' in the historical sense have been created by force and/or racism eg The Warsaw Ghetto for Jews during WW2, Black ghettoes in the U.S
In modern Britain yes there are areas with high numbers with high numbers or concentrations of a particular race or religion, as I mentioned, Northern Ireland in one extreme or Golders Green and Southall. However I would only say NI could be considered truly segregated in the true sense.
And yes I would say people have the right to live where they wish and I do believe educational choice has been enshrined in law by both the current and previous governments. I have no problems with religious schools existing whatsoever as long as this is not the only option. You wouldn't want us to go down the sectarian route in England and Wales would you?
With regards to the law, I believe in a seperation between church and state (even as a Christian), religion is a personal decision and how many teachers are experienced or religious enough to conduct a service these days. If a parent wishes to have their child taught a religion do you not think they would be better taking that child to the appropriate place of worship as opposed to a teacher going through the motions for the sake of the law?
If a school has the facilities and staff for people to worship, I for one would not stop anybody from choosing to do so but remember you cannot force someone onto God and you cannot force them away from it either.
and any others with an interest in what the Koran and religious teachers have to say on the subject.
http://www.muhajabah.com/jilbab.htm
I will say again, none of us are experts, so how can we tell someone what is written in their holy book is wrong or right surely that is up to the individual?
The Stanford Prison Experiment, a very interesting study well worth checking out. :yes:
Perhaps by disrespecting them all equally?
Not all Muslims follow Sharia law y'know.
There are different strands of Islam, same as there are with Christianity.
But you'd know that, being so well informed about everything, yeah?
I should think that most people know more than you.
http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/S/shariahtv/points3.html
1. He shouldn't get drunk.
2. He should not allow himself to get tempted.
So to some muslims it is acceptable to drink (in moderation) and to others it isn't, depending on how closely you relate these two ideas.