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Religion
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
How would you define "religion"?
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I would tend to agree, but that rules out Buddhism as a religion. :chin:
Geertz said that religion is a set of beliefs, patterns, symbols, patterns of behaviour etc that human beings use to control what is beyond them, if that makes sense. There are lots of other criteria like use of ritual, belief in things that are supernatural, but it's possible that even these can be rejected. If you get onto people like Durkheim, he believed that totemism was the earliest form of religious belief.
The short answer is, it's pretty difficult
It almost always involves an element of organization and practise of ritual though.
And the subject of my current essay...!
When Australia granted the Church of Scientology the right to call itself a religion two of the three judges who made the decision said that it could be classed as a religion because they believe in a supernatural being, theory or principle and they follow a pattern of behaviour that expresses that belief.
I quite like that theory because it suggests that there doesn't need to be a supernatural being, but simple a theory or principle. However, that would suggest that things like transcendal meditation (TM) could be classed as a religion, which advocates categorically deny.
I'd mostly agree with Geertz, although I don't think it's to try and control what is beyond them in the case of most religions. I'd say try to comprehend what is beyond them. That's the way I look at my faith. It might be different for other people.
It is pretty difficult to define. When you try to define it, it's like you're :banghead:
No box can fit all religions because they are so diverse.
Like yoga, or the Scouts?
Anything could be turned into a religion if you get enough people to follow it. Scientology for example.
I agree. Religion involves adherence to codified beliefs and rituals.
So, is the Scouts a religion? They have codified beliefs and rituals.
Brain damage. :chin:
"When one man suffers from delusion, we call it lunacy.
When millions suffer from it, we call it religion".
Don't shoot the messenger...
Do you think it is? I think that in the context of this thread that you might be able to work out the correct answer. Let me know if you can't.
There isn't any need for that, really. You know fine well I don't believe that, but by your very own definition of religion it would appear that mass organisations such as the Scouts could be classed as religion, since they adhere to codified beliefs and rituals.
I'm trying to find a definition of religion that is succinct and instantly rules out things that are typically not religion.
Your definition (and many others'):
is not sufficient for my purposes because it does not rule out organisations such as the Scouts, or even yoga. Likewise, other definitions such as worship of a higher being are not sufficient because they rule out certain well established religions.
So you must know full well that I don't believe the Scouts to be a religious movement either.
My own definition, in light of the thread which seems to be referring to religion in a context of spiritual faith, is ample. Perhaps I could have spelt it out better but I try and avoid being verbose ...
Second that.
There's a paper by Sperber, "Apparently Irrational Beliefs" in On Anthropological Knowledge.
There's a pretty heavy emphasis on the anthropology side of things, but the last one is a pretty good paper on how they have tried to account for so called 'irrational beliefs'.
Not all religions are unnecessary organisations.
Only ones that what can't accept that other people do not think like them are unnecessary. Organisations such as the Catholic church, the Church of Scientology or organisations (churches, mosques etc.) of Fundamentalists.
Those that can accept that people believe other things than what they believe are fine in my book.
I'm religious and will defend my religion by debate if someone tries to belittle it. Those that have no problem with my beliefs, I couldn't care less if they believe things that I don't because they have a right to believe it.
We're manipulated by many things on a day to day basis, I wouldn't say it's just exclusive to religion.
That's true. The media, the Government and the Banks to name but a few.
You don't worship the media, Government and Banks though do you?
That wasn't ghost's point though, I was pointing out in response to Lipsy that we're manipulated by a multitude of things every day. That doesn't mean to say we believe those things are part of someone's religious system or beliefs, but it religion isn't the only thing that could be constructed as a tool for manipulation.
A recent programme argued that atheism could be described as a religious system, while someone may believe in God, an athiest may have utmost faith in the fact that God doesn't exist and have a series of sets and values to affirm this. Fucks with your head a bit in the end
Yea it does fuck with your head a bit.