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That’s even worse – at least with the PE teacher we had the impression he might possibly have had sex at some point or other in his life, although probably purely for the purposes of procreation.
Nuns weren't always nuns...
Did Rich Kid steal your account? Because blanket stereotyping of anyone doesn't lead to a good debate - whether it's your left-wing hysteria or Aladdin's criticism of the catholic church.
And one more thing - 'approve of having the highest rate of teenage pregnancy' - provide a source for that, because although many people may have different views on what is the solution - to claim liberals or people who belong to left wing political parties want teenagers to be pregnant is, as far as I can see, a lie - and one that insults all those who have funded the kind of sexual health work done by services like theSite.orf
Find someone, anyone, who has ever said that.
Find someone, anyone, who has ever said that.
Find someone, anyone, who has ever said that.
Because we were discussing the Holy Catholic Church, perhaps? :rolleyes:
In my opinion everyone needs to be taught about contraception. And there are also a lot of pupil at faith schools who are there purely because they are seen to do well (normally) in league tables (which are also a load of bollocks but that for another discussion). And who’s to say that once these kids have families of their own or leave home, they will ever go to a church or confessional again.
I was brought up to have an open mind about things, but from what you might call deitist/pagan point of view. I have attended church, and thought that I was being brainwashed and that it really wasn't for me. But I have to say that I do believe life is sacred. Not all life. I don't believe that the rats and mice on the underground are sacred or mass murderers, or child abusers or rapists.
But if I found myself pregnant, alone, and unable to support a child, not just financially, but emotionally, then I would have an abortion. The same goes if I was raped, or for medical reasons.
I feel that everyone should have the choice. No one should be forced into an abortion because they are told by someone else that they will not be able to support the child. But I do not believe that an unborn child has rights. You can miscarry at any point in your pregnancy, week 1 or week 40. In my point of view a child doesn’t gain rights until they have come out of the womb.
Kids shouldn't have beliefs forced on them either. but, I don't think that there is any problem of bringing your kids up in a certain religion, as long as that is not the only religion they learn about and you encourage them to explore the world of religions- even if that is just finding a bit out about Buddhism if your a Christian or visiting a temple. I’ve been to a place of worship for a lot of religions because my mother encouraged me to do so. And maybe because we didn't have any set religious confines of our own.
I don't really know where I’m going with this, but I believe that schools should teach about the religious holidays and the views of each religion- Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Judaism and to a lesser extent paganism, and Rastafarianism. When I had RE lessons, all I was ever taught about was the Christian point of view. And I really don’t think that’s right.
Sorry for the rambling. If you could be bothered to read all of this maybe it made some sense.
I don't know. I don't reckon they should skim over every religion, because in geography, you don't learn about every country individually, and in history you don't learn about every historical event. However, in geography, you tend to learn about each environment on earth, and so similarly in religion, I think you should learn about all of the religious issues. Students should learn about abortion, sex, euthanasia etc, and learn about the differing opinions on each subject. That doesn't mean, Islam thinks this, Christianity thinks this, it means these are all the varying viewpoints on this issue. I don't see why we have to teach what a particular religion thinks about a subject, because all I think that does is emphasise differances between people, and causes people to make assumptions based on what religion someone is. I'd rather teach what different people think rather than what different religions think.
How many times have you heard someone say "I'm not very religious" because they don't go to church. When in fact they probably have a strong opinion on most religious issues, and so they are religious. Interestingly, at my Catholic school, we never discussed the merits and drawbacks of organised religion. :chin:
so do you think we should have philosophy and ethics lessons rather than religion lessons
That's very interesting, and unusual.
Our RE lessons were unofficially split into two different sections: part of which was all directly related to the bible (parable study etc), sacraments, teaching about the various saints etc. The other part was more generic ethical debate (obviously with a strongly religious undertone) in which we were able to freely discuss abortion, contraception (I can still picture Sister Calasanctious's face talking about the withdrawal method, teehee) euthanasia and the political issues that were current at the time - although how "free" you felt to talk openly was another matter, since once again we had a nun teaching us.
I don't know that you should be taught about all religions, and...
...agree with this.
You will, will you?
Hope you're going to provide some proof for that boyo.
Because as it stands that's a terrible libel on the Church. And its a lazy point I am sick of reading time and time again.
Yes, some clergy have sexually and physically abused children. Yes, the Church covered it up somewhat- and given the bollocks said since, who can blame them for damage limitation? But so have some Barnado's staff. Social services covered over systematic abuse in Liverpool and Wales for 20 years or more. Shall we start saying that everyone who works in a children's home is a raging nonce just waiting to rape little girls and boys?
No, we shan't, because it's quite clearly ludicrous.
Proof or retraction about this statement.
So it wasn't consistent and it wasn't sanctioned fire-and-brimstone. It was a diatribe by the thickest teacher in the school.
At least tell the truth.
If I want my child brought up with a Catholic education then that is my choice. It isn't "child abuse" to bring up a child with the ethos I believe in. For all the faults of the Catholic school I went to and the education I received there (mostly concerning the lack of sex education), it was still infinitely better than the secular drug den comp down the road. At least "faith" schools still have some semblance of community and ethos.
Having said that, all religions should be taught. In my school they were, going into some very deep detail about Islam in particular, and also Judaism, Sikhism and Hinduism, and how their religious beliefs should be respected.
All big organisations do the same thing. Always have done.
It's a terrible thing to do, but its not a problem specific to the Catholic Church.
It doesn't make it acceptable, but it proves that it has nothing to do with the Church or the vows of its clergy, and everything to do with the fact that some people will always take advantage of the vulnerable young people in their care in the most sickening way possible.
There are around 400,000 catholic priests around in the world. There's almost as many social workers in this country alone- god knows how many millions worldwide. Yet compare the number of cases involving priests against cases involving anyone else, social workers included.
To admit this does not have to mean every catholic priest is a paedo at all- it simply demonstrate that the unnatural, unhealthy and unreasonable rule of celibacy plays a massive part in the disproportionably high percentage of clergy who end up committing sexual abuse.
I really can't see how anyone could say such cases are not significantly more common amongst catholic clergy than amongst other groups. They clearly are.
I choose to judge people and organisations on thier actions, not what they profess to teach. How can you say it has nothing to do with the church? This went to the very top. That doesn't mean that all of the clergy were in on it, the vast majority of priests are good people, but the policies of an organisation are determined by those at the top. When an organisation covers up actions such as these, the only conclusion can be that it approves of such actions, or at least doesn't disprove of them enough to risk losing it's reputation.
Quite.
I'd also suggest that there aren't 400,000 people in this country who are in a position of residential pastoral care with children. Nothing like that number, maybe a few thousand, not much more than clergy really.
Some clergy are abusers of children, but so are some teachers, some police officers, and some residential childrens care home staff. Now as the other groups don't have a vow of celibacy, yet still have abusers in their midst, I think its fair to say that the vows of the church are completely irrelevant.
As for the number of clergy in this country who are sexual abusers, its fairly safe to say you can count them on your fingers. Even the huge scandals such as in Boston didn't go beyond a handful of clergy. So I'm really not sure what the point is.
It's just a cheap shot, and has nothing to do with anything.
Social services have covered up scandals far worse than even the Boston scandal, but people don't attack them for it in any sort of way. Just saying.
Doing searches is not foolproof but a quick one on the BBC reveals 88 stories related to "paedophile priest", 0 for "paedophile social worker" and a grand total of 1 for "paedophile worker".
Other than this I don't know how exactly one can prove it, seeing as no statistics of child abuse by profession appear to exist. But anyone who claims or believes instances of child abuse amongst catholic clergy do not appear to be significantly higher than those amongst any other profession must either live on another planet or not be very aware of what goes on in the world.
And the point of it is to reinstate that asking celibacy of someone is profoundly wrong and can have serious consequences.
You know that for a fact do you?
I wonder how many cases has the Vatican covered that we're not aware of.
Do you think they might exceed those covered by social services perchance?
Funnily enough, people who like plants have a tendency to become gardeners as well.
It is for me and I suspect for millions of others who live on planet earth and have been watching the news and reading the newspapers during their lifetimes
Er, yes I have just posted all the evidence there is available and I can confidently repeat what I have said before that according to all the information and news available there appear to be a signifiantly higher proportion of child abusers amongst catholic priests than amongst any other professions.
If you're uncomfortable with that, report away :rolleyes:
And you'd be denying the power of mass media, which is immense. Now you're just lying at me.
Where have you searched for this evidence? The BBC website? Google? I'm uncomfortable with all kinds of bigotry. Thankfully I think we can all laugh off your ridiculous statements as the rantings of an angry man, as per usual.
Catholics themselves were sometimes so deeply embarrassed by such cases they decided to take action
In-depth analysis from Wikipedia
Even catholic newspapers suggest a link between celibacy and high number of cases of child abuse
Now, if you choose to believe that in view of all of this incidents of child abuse amongst catholic clergy are not above average for other professions, please feel free to do so.
The BBC and other respected world media organisations. Something that everyone here, including you, have considered sufficient evidence on countless occasions in the past.
If you really think that child abuse cases are no high amongst catholic clergy than amongst other professions then
a) you are in a very small minority
b) you are deluding yourself