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You might find that if workers are paid decent wages and treated with respect, they might pass the feeling on to custmers, be happier at their work, and provide a far better service.
Don't expect great service from an underpaid, overexploited worker working in shit conditions and feeling completely unvalued by his profit-obsessed company though.
Aye.
If people are actually happy... maybe... it'll be better?
Or am I being a silly sod now, happiness isn't cost-effective, afterall.
Yes and most companies do that, because its in their interests and in doing so it benefits those who work for them.
So we've now all agreed that capitalism is good for workers and good for consumers... Glad to see you and Teh_Gerbil have finally come round to seeing the error of your ways and support capitalism :razz:
Classic!
That's what the early capitalists found, that's why all the improvements in social equality were done by intelligent capitalists before being taken over and done badly by the state.
And don't expect to find new businesses cropping up to fulfill your needs if there is a state enforcing monopolies.
though i have never been to india, I guess they do speak english,
Except when call centres are moved to India, it benefits no one apart from the company. Consumers over here suffer as its hard to understand people, there's no common cultural references, they ask you to spell obvious names etc, wasting our time and phone bill. The employees over there tend to be highly educated people with university degrees and the only work they can get is low paid hard work for long hours in call centres where they have to ask permission to pee. The only people that benefit are the companies that make more money. Great huh?
You don't even have an understanding of what socialism actually means.
http://www.libcom.org/history/articles/spanish-civil-war-1936-39/index.php
Well as you don't know how capitalism works I'd say we're even...
The overriding and only concern for companies is to make the meximum amount of profits possible. While many workers might be paid well and treated with respect in small businesses, the same is seldom true of large companies. Businesses will get away with as much as they can. They simply offer low prices to attract the consumer, taking a calculated risk that the majority of those consumers will put up with shoddy aftersales service or a useless customer care service.
Let's not pretend that capitalism is a wonderful system that benefits both the consumer and the worker, because it certainly doesn't. The only people capitalism seeks to benefit are the businessmen and the shareholders.
Sorry, why haven't the people working in these places in India benefited?
They get paid more and work in better conditions than is the average in India, so they have benefited haven't they?
Sorry where do you work?
In a collective, or some firm organised along cooperative lines?
and I assume you have data or evidence of some kind to support your idea that the majority of those working for large frims in this country are mistreated in some way as you imply?
Well the idea that those wages would save anyone from poverty, for starters.
I aren't the one trying to claim that MNCs offshoring is a wondeful thing that will save poor people and feed starving kittens.
As Aladdin says, companies simply do not care about health, safety or the wellbeing of employees. Keep them fit enough and bright enough to work, but that's hardly egalitarian is it? If you need good people companies will offer deals to those people to attract them, but if you do not have a marketable skill then you won't get sod all.
Toadborg, have you ever had a job?
Companies offshore for the simple fact that conditions that are protected in this country don't exist elsewhere. Great.
Excuse me sir, can I have a pee? No, I'll have to wait another six hours.
Did you actually read the extract?
And it goes on and on and on with these contradictions.
By turning more people into capitalists, the system became better. This is why capitalism is the best way to do absolutely anything.
What stops those epeople from just setting up another company and out competing the "bad" businesses? I'll give you a clue - it's not the capitalists.
And how exactly do you become a large corporation that has no responsibility or accountability due to legal immunity?
Is that down to capitalists or is it down to the violent sociopaths in the "state"?
It's the only system that benefits everyone.
Well, actually it is.
Keep someone on subsistence wages- and that's what a lot of UK workers are on, when it boils down to it- and they can't do anything about it.
Shares or food, mmmm. Tough choice.
There's no "or" there.
The MNCs are the state. The state is the MNC.
Look, you are assuming things like having only one form of money. You have to use the governments money, they use force to make this the case. The reason they can't do anything about it is because people who work in your profession and it's associated ones will happily take a decent standard of living to cage other humans.
Like I said, what actually stops you from just making up a new currency for your "group"?
What enables corporate immunity?
:yes:
And as it's the same entity, it's violent coercion cloaked under differing names. There is nothing capitalist about it. It's collectivistic, communistic feudalistic fascistic violently imposed hierarchy. They are all the same thing, only the language changes.
BUT - do those in the buisiness end of the state, the MNC have the nuts to use violence themselves?
No, they pay someone else to do it. Not that they have to often, most people are nicely conditioned to obedience in the state schools and universities and never even consider that there could be alternatives, never mind act upon them.
As I said small businesses tend treat their workers better and pay them better wages.
That is not very often the case with large companies. Low wages, little flexibility and help for anything from toilet breaks to time off, bad communication with the management, exploitation and discrimination culture, low morale, no benefits or even goodwill gestures...
Some large companies such as the John Lewis Group are said to be good places to work in where workers are treated and paid relatively well. Sadly such companies are few and far between. And this is because most businesses only care about maximum profits, and one sure way to obtain maximum profits is to give as little away as possible to your workers and to not 'waste' any money on better facilities or schemes for them.
I honestly can't believe that despite the evidence people must see everyday they can't see that capitalism (or rather a mixed economy) has been the most succesful economic and political system for democracy, wealth and human happiness the world has yet to see. And that socialism despite its aims has led to tyranny, mass murder and has failed everytime it has been introduced.
To be fair I suspect most people who argue for captalism (with the exception of Klintock) are not arguing for an absolute free-market, but a mixed-economy, which has capitalism, but also some sort of state control and intervention (eg laws on health and safety) and that the state also has a major role in social provision (welfare etc).
Now you can argue whether the US model or the French model is the best (or whether both are wrong and the UK middle ground model is more superior to both), but they are all fundamentally better than the alternatives of socialism, feudalism or slavery.
That says absolutely nothing. You might as well say socialism is the most effective form of economic control in a socialist society. It would equally be right - it just doesn't say which is the better system...
Yes they benefit in a small way. But do you think its that great to employ highly educated people as low paid drones in call centres? Is that really all that great?
I think I have a far better understanding than you do.
Do you think that employment rights and working conditions were granted as a gift from employers? or fell from heaven?
Oh I'm not going to deny some of the benefits of capitalism. But at what cost? Pollution, climate change, environmental destruction, wars, homelessness, alienation, rising suicide rates etc.
And seeing as we've already established that you don't understand what socialism means, we can safely ignore the rest of your "point".
I only have problems understanding strong cardiff accents. But the fact of the matter is that a lot of these overseas telesales people have accents which are totally alien to most people here and it's pretty difficult communicating with them. Anyone can adapt their native dialect to become more proper but it's not so easy with a second language. I could be able to write french perfectly but i wouldn't be surprised if french people had problems with my pronunciation of their language.