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French riots

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
What are people's thoughts on what's going on in France?

I don't really know that much about it. Although I find it interesting that nobody's said much about it on here, if it was happening in America how many posts would there be criticising Bush and his government?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not exactly sure what it's all about...something to do with two muslim teens being killed or something? Surely there are other means to sorting relations between communities over there.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Surely there are other means to sorting relations between communities over there.
    :D:D :yeees:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ---
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :D:D :yeees:

    lol I supose that saying is quite familiar.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    it does seem somewhat ludicris nobody seems to be too sure why it's happening, i've been trying to find out and none of the news agentcies seem to be giving a clear picture.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It doesn't really surprise me.

    Impoverished ethnic/religious ghettos are always going to potentially troublesome. All you need is something to spark it off, the same thing happened in England (Bradford, Oldham, Stoke...etc etc).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Basically two lads who were playing football saw the police chasing a gang of youths. Fearing they were about to be attacked by the police they ran into an electricity sub-station and were killed.

    The underlying causes are a bit more complex, but mainly to do with alienation from the state. this is made worse by the French policy of all citizens being equal to the state - fine in theory, but in practice its meant that Muslims have been allowed to become more and more disaffected from the state with nobody doing anything about it. Any allegiances they have are extremely local, there is hatred of the police (and even more so of the riot police brought in from outside the area). On top of this the French government is running around like a chicken who's had an appointment with the gullotine, unsure of whether to break the riots by force, try and negotiate or to blame each other.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's been building up for a while - if anyone has seen the film La Haine they will know - but it's just gone out of control.

    Lessons for us to learn I'm sure.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    France getting what it asked for. What did they expect when they shove ethnic minorities into small ghettos, deprive them of decent housing, and leave them exposed to numerous race-hate crimes?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have immensely enjoyed it all, even having the hysterical French papers sent over to me. I hope the same thing happens here.

    How could anybody hope for riots and violence?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How could anybody hope for riots and violence?

    Because it'll boost the BNP's support. Which i'm sure he'd be delighted with.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Because it'll boost the BNP's support. Which i'm sure he'd be delighted with.
    oh come now, you don't know he's BNP or has any other type of WP views. Remeber last time the thread turned towards Slippys political convictions? We never got an answer.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Remeber last time the thread turned towards Slippys political convictions? We never got an answer.

    Which was in itself, an answer.

    As for his wanting riots, pehraps he's too busy reading the French papers to read English ones. I'm sure Kermit will remind him of events in Bradford not so longs ago, and of course more recently he might like to look to Brum.

    Of course, what he won't accept is the it is the misinformation printed by the scumbag BNP which just exacerbates/inflames the situation.

    [Edited to remove reference to Slippy being BNP supporter]
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have immensely enjoyed it all, even having the hysterical French papers sent over to me. I hope the same thing happens here.
    Yawn.

    Back to the toilet to have another one off the wrist over a photo of Dave Copeland, why don't you child?



    Anyways back to the subject- the root of the problem is not the way those teenagers died or whether the police were responsible. The root is deep inequality and poverty. That is other European governments, including our own, are following events with preoccupation. Because sometimes it only takes a spark to start it off.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    [Edited to remove reference to Slippy being BNP supporter]
    :D
    what will he post when the petrol bombs are in his street?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :D
    what will he post when the petrol bombs are in his street?

    wouldn't be supprised if it contained more than a couple of terms that can get ya kicked off thesite. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    oh come now, you don't know he's BNP or has any other type of WP views. Remeber last time the thread turned towards Slippys political convictions? We never got an answer.

    I was "WP" a long time ago before I developed proper capacity for reason (although it's not something I regret...was useful in my political development) - so I can spot BNP talk a mile off.

    Unlike Born Slippy, I at least had the balls to be up front about it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    I was "WP" a long time ago before I developed proper capacity for reason (although it's not something I regret...was useful in my political development) - so I can spot BNP talk a mile off.
    you as WP scum? :eek2: I have a really hard time imagining that. Well good on ya for coming to your senses. :thumb:
    Unlike Born Slippy, I at least had the balls to be up front about it.

    true.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    It's been building up for a while - if anyone has seen the film La Haine they will know - but it's just gone out of control.

    Lessons for us to learn I'm sure.

    Exactly, I urge in the strongest possible terms that everyone goes out and watches La Haine, it will put rioting in France and in certain areas of Britain into a much better focus.

    Their situation is like our's but more pronounced, council estates which are isolated, poorly policed and generally left to their own without help.

    If we dont make much better moves to improve the housing and oportunities for people in the UK this will happen on this scale here too.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i've seen la haine.. very dark film.

    the riots reached the ghetto bit of a city an hour from paris last night... where i lived last year.
    was a right shit hole i tell ya. the uni was there and i used to get followed and harrassed by the lads every day. when i told a french woman in the hairdressers where i lived she said 'oh how sad' - because the rest of the city was beautiful and wealthy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem here is the economy. Frances economy is so sclerotic and crap at job creation, that these young people simply dont have anything to do.

    Unemployment in these areas runs at almost 40%.

    They must be lifted out of poverty through enterprise and work.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes and of course racism has nothing to do with it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't you think so, Blagsta?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    These riots are disturbing. All the more worrying is the fact the French government are only doing something about it TWO WEEKS after they started. Some claim racism has nothing to do with it. I don't completely agree with that - though I don't understand this issue fully, I can't see how racism is going to do anything but make it worse.

    You could do better though than listen to far-right Russian politicians about this. Vladimir Zhirinovsky says he has hundreds of volunteers waiting to put a stop to the riots, many with special forces training. Just one problem - most are actually football rioters. Click here.

    Takes a racist to make a potentially racist situation worse, I suppose. :(
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with the French government, these people are scum. You will ask why so I will give you my reasons.

    The rioters are from a migrant background. These people have come to Europe to find a better life and I have nothing against this but if they are not satisfied with the life they have in Europe then they can choose to go back to their own countries. The reality is that many of them are from second or third generation migrant backgrounds and their families found work in Europe in low paid unskilled jobs. Do you honestly think that the following generations are going to jump strait into high paid managerial creme de la creme positions of French society?! Its not discrimination, but the reality of the situation these people are brought up into. Look at the UK for example. How many people from white council estates accutually end up in well paid jobs? This isnt racist discrimination but the reality of the situation.
    Opportunites exist for everyone but not everyone will take them. Perhaps if you took a look at the percentage of ethnic minorities working in well paid jobs in the health service you would see a very different picture.

    Secondly, The French system offers some of the best welfare benefits in Europe or the world for that matter. Everyone who has the slightest bit of education realises that France is in the shitter with regard to their economy because they are so left wing and business are avoiding investing in the country to create jobs. If these people will happily take a big cut in their welfare benefits then perhaps a few more jobs could be created for them to work.

    Thirdly, we live in a democratic society and this is not how you behave in a civilised world. Voilence should achieve nothing. They are destroying their own areas, their own opportunities and they are creating tension within the French society who are Im sure becomming fare less tolerant of these people. When Le Pen or whoever is France's right wing radical get voted in on the back of these riots I for one will not be surprised.

    Fourth, Ask yourself where are all the lower class French people with regard to these riots? They are living in exactly the same situation!

    Lastly, Perhaps the most recent comparision with the UK I can make is with Northern Ireland and the recient loyalists riots. These people in exactly the same way were Claiming poverty, discrimination and lack of opportunity when in reality to be poor in Europe these days is not to have the latest playstation. They recked their own areas and it did them no good and Im glad the police took no shit from them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't you think so, Blagsta?

    I was asking you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Googler wrote:
    I agree with the French government, these people are scum. You will ask why so I will give you my reasons.

    The rioters are from a migrant background. These people have come to Europe to find a better life and I have nothing against this but if they are not satisfied with the life they have in Europe then they can choose to go back to their own countries. The reality is that many of them are from second or third generation migrant backgrounds and their families found work in Europe in low paid unskilled jobs. Do you honestly think that the following generations are going to jump strait into high paid managerial creme de la creme positions of French society?! Its not discrimination, but the reality of the situation these people are brought up into. Look at the UK for example. How many people from white council estates accutually end up in well paid jobs? This isnt racist discrimination but the reality of the situation.
    Opportunites exist for everyone but not everyone will take them. Perhaps if you took a look at the percentage of ethnic minorities working in well paid jobs in the health service you would see a very different picture.

    Secondly, The French system offers some of the best welfare benefits in Europe or the world for that matter. Everyone who has the slightest bit of education realises that France is in the shitter with regard to their economy because they are so left wing and business are avoiding investing in the country to create jobs. If these people will happily take a big cut in their welfare benefits then perhaps a few more jobs could be created for them to work.

    Thirdly, we live in a democratic society and this is not how you behave in a civilised world. Voilence should achieve nothing. They are destroying their own areas, their own opportunities and they are creating tension within the French society who are Im sure becomming fare less tolerant of these people. When Le Pen or whoever is France's right wing radical get voted in on the back of these riots I for one will not be surprised.

    Fourth, Ask yourself where are all the lower class French people with regard to these riots? They are living in exactly the same situation!

    Lastly, Perhaps the most recent comparision with the UK I can make is with Northern Ireland and the recient loyalists riots. These people in exactly the same way were Claiming poverty, discrimination and lack of opportunity when in reality to be poor in Europe these days is not to have the latest playstation. They recked their own areas and it did them no good and Im glad the police took no shit from them.

    :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Amazing how a single post can expose just how ignorant some people are, isn't it Googler?

    Listen to what the French have said themselves...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont know if you refering to me or the person who posted after. If your not refering to me I dont want to get into an argument between you two. If you are why don't you explain yourself a bit more instead of simply dismissing what I have said and calling me ignorant? I have a Belgian friend who I was speaking to tonight. He told me that the trouble has started there althogh not half as intense in Brussels. He told me his view of the situation and it wasnt any different to mine.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piss off
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