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Eh? It was a poll for a well known radio programme about philosophy for the greatest philosopher. On that basis, it is wiser to assume that people voted for who they believe the greatestm philosopher to be. Unless you're privy to info that the rest of us aren't?
Eh?
Normally I'd agree with you. The trouble is that no matter how I try (and even taking into account the obvious subjectivity of the matter) there's no way I can see why a majority of people would think that Marx was the greatest philospher - I speak as a philosophy graduate.
His writing is not, in my opinion, that revolutionary in a philosophical sense. He's not a pure philosopher. He doesn't have the radically different way of thinking that Nietzsche had - that's not even to mention the likes of Plato. he doesn't have the staggering intellect of Leibniz and he had a partner in his writing, Engels, who, it seems, is completely forgotten when it comes time to decide who's the greatest.
I think Marx would win 'most influential' perhaps
and of course there are many different branches of philosophy which are difficult to compare perhaps.........
Also there is the distinction between the method and the results.........
Point 1 We agree that some people think Marx's critique is correct and we agree that some people's critique is incorrect.
Point 2 Where we don't seem to be able to agree is the number who think Marx is correct compared to those who don't. I suspect you think the numbers who agree with it are higher than I think.
Unfortunately neither of us can proove our views are on Point 2 are correct, all we can is provide anecdotal evidence of people agreeing or disagreeing, which only provides evidence for point 1.
A very good point...but good luck to anyone who wants to argue that Marx's theorys are more influential than, say, Aristotelian Ethics.
Rather hard to prove either way. We can point to the fact that at one point in the last century, half of the world claimed to be following Marxist principles, but how does that compare to centuries of influence to the extent that many people probably don't realise what's even based on Greek philsosphy these days (not to mention Aristotle tutored Alexander the Great).
However I would say Aristotles influence has been restricted more to other thinkers whereas Marx has been more influential of 'ordianry' people.
I would imagine most people could give a very basic idea of what 'Marxism' meant whereas the numbers who could do similar for Aristolte, at any time in the last 2000 years, would be minute..........
Indeed...that rather backs up what people are saying about the voting being based on the most famous rather than the best. Despite the fact that a lot of people can give you a potted version of Marxism (actually rather debateable I should think), far more will have used Aristotle's work and never realised it.
Is 'influential' defined by knowing a philosopher's work and using it, or in using it whether you know who's it is or not.
I am not certain that far more people have used Aristoles work, even without knowing it and if they did it was probably to a rather limited degree wheras Marxism has been THE central ideas system for millions of people.........
So, an analysis of how our society is organised is not actually important to you? I guess you'd rather hang on to discredited ideas like the social contract huh?
Politics & philosophy are inseparably linked. I probably wouldn't have voted for Marx, but still, as political philosophy it's easy for people to understand the main concepts and see their relevence today, which would be my guess as to the reason for him being voted no 1.
You know exactly the point that I (and about 3 other posters) were trying to make. Either that or you're thick. Whichever it is I'm not going to repeat it AGAIN.
You said I was having a fit "like the Daily Mail had", which is your way of "proving" a your point. You always compare the other person to the Daily Mail, The Sun or the BNP, which just shows how meaningless your arguments are.
Most people who have a rough idea about Marx's and his work but would not have a clue about other philosopher such as Hobbs’s or Plato.
Also this is not the only victory Marx's has had on the BBC...
Marx the millennium's 'greatest thinker'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/461545.stm
:yes:
Hardly discredited. Disputed certainly.
Of course analysis of society is important, but once again you either deliberately or through stupidity miss the point. Analysis of capitalism doesn't make Marx the greatest philosopher ever, some would say it's not even a part of philosophy. Understand that?
No, that is not the point you made. The point you made was that you thought that people were only voting for the people they'd heard of. I'm pointing out that you're being incredibly simple minded. Some people may have voted for that reason certainly, but you cannot say that everyone did.
No, I was saying that your idiotic pedantry seems to be based on a dislike for Marx and his ideas rather than any seriously thought out arguments. Just like the Daily Mail's reaction.
I admire Marx and think he should be in at least the top 20. My arguments are always more thought out than yours. My reaction was nothing like the Daily Mail's you cock. I made a perfectly valid point about why he was voted top, which most people on this thread agreed with. You're the pedantic fuckwit.
Yep.
You were certainly insinuating this poll was credible a minute ago. I made a valid point, you bogged it down with shite nonsensical points.
Errr...yeah you did. Look - http://vbulletin.thesite.org.uk/showpost.php?p=1394619&postcount=2
That very much implies that you think that people voted for Marx because he is the most well known. I'd argue that Plato is more well known as a philosopher than Marx.
You haven't made any argument except that "more people have heard of Marx as a philosopher", which is (a) compeltely unprovable and (b) not thought out at all
Oh fer fucksake. Please try reading what I actually write rather than what you imagine I write.
No, really.
Politics (as we know it) is the practical manifestation of philosophy.
Karl Marx
No, again you miss/twist the point. I didn't say everyone did. Just that the results that came up were because a majority or at a lot of the people voted for who they'd heard of.
It's pointless arguing with you, you are either thick or just obtuse.
You have absolutely no evidence to base that on.
Aaaah, lose the argument and resort to abuse. Well done.
Look -
No one has ever said its meant to be the definitive poll on the bestest philosopher ever. Its a straw poll of listeners to a Radio 4 programme. However, this does not mean that people only voted for who they've heard of. If that was the case, Plato or Socrates would probably have won.
You are basing your opinion on nothing at all. I'm basing mine on the fact that it was a poll of Radio 4 listeners to a programme that often discusses philosophical ideas. See the difference?
So very rich coming from you. You lost the argument a while back and you resorted to your old tactic of comparing me to the Daily Mail or calling me a "BNP troll" (whatever the hell that is) :thumb: .
As I said - try reading what I actually write, rather than what you imagine I write. It will make things easier for everyone.
Hmmm, remind me never to bother arguing with you again. That was pretty pointless.
Anyone in mind?
seeker
Do YOU not have one yourself ?
(BTW,thats a serious question)
seeker
It was. Maybe you need to learn to read properly.