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Government to monitor 3 year olds for potential criminality...

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah but a three year old that has tantrums and wont eat his dinner, does NOT mean that he will grow into a criminal.
    I dont think you can judge such a young child.

    Well no, of course not, but a kid who is unhappy and unhealthy and badly adjusted with his enviroment hasn't got the best chance to be a happy and healthy adult.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Well no, of course not, but a kid who is unhappy and unhealthy and badly adjusted with his enviroment hasn't got the best chance to be a happy and healthy adult.
    Thats true, but its completely not the point because someone who isnt happy and healthy, isnt necessarily a criminal.
    We cant make everybody perfect.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thats true, but its completely not the point because someone who isnt happy and healthy, isnt necessarily a criminal.
    We cant make everybody perfect.

    And I am not in anyway suggesting that we should try. What I am saying is that helping parents with their children is a good idea, that happy and well adjusted children are likely to do better at school and therefore at more likely to have more oportunities and therefore less likely to be disadvantaged.

    Its not as simple as unhappy child = crime, but there is a relationship here between parenting and the childs future prospects.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i do see what you are saying. I do think though, that at three years of age, you cant really make any judgements of worth about a child. Even children that really play up, arent necessarily because of bad parenting, and arent any more likely to be criminals. Some children are more difficult than others. I know parenting plays a part, but by three years of age, I honestly think you cannot tell at all what they will be like as an adult, therefore interventions are a waste of time, money and an infringement of individual rights.
    Of course help should be there for people that want it, but thats a separate issue.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course help should be there for people that want it, but thats a separate issue.

    Which is all I was suggesting.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Farewell freedom. Welcome total surveillance and a fascist Government who are prepared and willing to use arbitrary force against dissenters.

    Have a nice day. :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can't believe this happening already. This was dramatised on BBC2 a few months back. It was part of a series of docu-dramas ('What If...' or a similair title) and ended up with a young kid being taken away by the authorities and being detained under those circumstances.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i do see what you are saying. I do think though, that at three years of age, you cant really make any judgements of worth about a child. Even children that really play up, arent necessarily because of bad parenting, and arent any more likely to be criminals. Some children are more difficult than others. I know parenting plays a part, but by three years of age, I honestly think you cannot tell at all what they will be like as an adult, therefore interventions are a waste of time, money and an infringement of individual rights.
    Of course help should be there for people that want it, but thats a separate issue.


    exactly i have difficulties socialising, dont mean i should be kept away from people cause im about as harmless as they come really
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My point is that more effort is put into detecting "blue-collar" crime.

    Just a though, but how many of those issues I raised actually prevent crime?

    Or people worry more about the low-level crime such as muggings, burglary, car-theft or vandalism which is 'detected' by these measures than worry about Midlands bank being conned out of a few million. One may involve more money, but one effects people more directly.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    You can't really tell with a three year old.

    I would certainly have been locked up. I was always playing police chases with toy cars. Playing with toy guns. Watching war films.

    And of course, trapping other kids in the Nursrey toy house and not letting them out. Same in the ball pool tunnel at another kids play centre. And palying wars with my friends was just ace.

    When i should have been drawing rabbits, playing with fluffy toys, and being nice I suppose.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I was just about to post the very same thing. Great minds etc etc.

    Why don't we just go the whole hog and build the Ministry of Love to nurture all these kids back into full appreciation of how wonderful Tony "Fuhrer" Blair is.

    no its notthe great minds thing, you two are (delete expletive) like rabbits

    of course you know what the other ones like :P
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the title of that article was a bit sensationalist... They are merely looking out for kids who have problems that are known to lead to criminal behaviour, and in so doing, will attemp to fix these problems before there is even a hint of that criminality.

    alot of crime can probably be sourced to childhood...

    it's not like they're going to tell the parents "I'm sorry, but your child is going to grow up to become a criminal"

    more like

    "your child has certain social interaction problems, which we will help you to address in order for them to attain their full educational potential"

    :chin:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Replicant wrote:
    the title of that article was a bit sensationalist... They are merely looking out for kids who have problems that are known to lead to criminal behaviour, and in so doing, will attemp to fix these problems before there is even a hint of that criminality.

    alot of crime can probably be sourced to childhood...

    it's not like they're going to tell the parents "I'm sorry, but your child is going to grow up to become a criminal"

    more like

    "your child has certain social interaction problems, which we will help you to address in order for them to attain their full educational potential"

    :chin:
    the article i read a few days ago talked of children being taken into care!
    some of the nicest kids at my school turned out to be right bastards.
    quite a few of the idiots are running very sucsessful businesses and familys ...it's all pie in the sky.
    forget the three year olds ...get 'em while there in the womb ...alter them so they can't possibly do their own thing why not.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How many people have either had an experience like this or witnessed one:

    Child gets labelled as being bad.

    Child decides "well if I'm gonna get blamed for stuff when I haven't even done anything, then I'm gonna give them something to blame me for"

    I'm guessing lots of people can relate to this, which proves how stupid the idea of spying -cos that's what it is- on little kids is (not to mention psychotic and even perverse).

    P.S. The government's usual way of "fixing" problems that kids have is usually to lock em up, when, as has now (finally!) been evidenced on tv (such as on SuperNanny and similar programs), it's often the failings of someone else that is causing the behaviour (and you criticise all you want about "blaming the parents", but sometimes they have to be blamed because they are to blame - but sometimes it's outside influences as well/instead). Therefore the route of the problem is ignored, and often the problem remains. If you "quick fix" something, it's more likely to re-occur.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Or people worry more about the low-level crime such as muggings, burglary, car-theft or vandalism which is 'detected' by these measures than worry about Midlands bank being conned out of a few million.

    But a lot of white-collar crime isn't robbing HSBC of a million quid, it's robbing Mr and Mrs Bloggs of their life savings.

    And there is no such thing as a victimless crime.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:

    And there is no such thing as a victimless crime.
    smoking a spliff?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    smoking a spliff?
    Who do buy it off?
    Who did they maim/rape/kill in the process?
    Who did their supplier hurt in the process?

    etc etc.

    There are varying degrees of "victim", but there's no victimless crime.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    But a lot of white-collar crime isn't robbing HSBC of a million quid, it's robbing Mr and Mrs Bloggs of their life savings.

    And there is no such thing as a victimless crime.

    I'm not saying there isn't a victimless crime I am just pointing out that to many people low level crimes such as vandalism have a bigger blight on their day to day lives that white collar.

    (that said I've never worked out who insider trading robs - apart from being unfair to those who didn't get the tip off)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Who do buy it off?
    Who did they maim/rape/kill in the process?
    Who did their supplier hurt in the process?

    etc etc.

    There are varying degrees of "victim", but there's no victimless crime.

    A lot of weed in this country is grown and supplied between groups of mates. So that's pretty victimless.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    I'm not saying there isn't a victimless crime I am just pointing out that to many people low level crimes such as vandalism have a bigger blight on their day to day lives that white collar.

    On a day-to-day life it possibly is.

    And then they get £2000 put on their credit card and £1000 put on a mobile telephone.
    that said I've never worked out who insider trading robs - apart from being unfair to those who didn't get the tip off

    Honest investors who lose money by being placed at an unfair disadvantage.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    A lot of weed in this country is grown and supplied between groups of mates. So that's pretty victimless.

    But not totally victimless.

    I don't think the victim in many cases suffers enough for it to be a crime. I don't think that denies the existence of a victim though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How is it not totally victimless?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    How is it not totally victimless?
    yeah, I must admit, I cant really see how smoking a spliff is not a victimless crime in most cases.
    I could see your point if talking about a line of coke or a bag of smack, but not a spliff usually.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Who do buy it off?
    Who did they maim/rape/kill in the process?
    Who did their supplier hurt in the process?

    etc etc.

    There are varying degrees of "victim", but there's no victimless crime.
    kermit ...i have to say ...your worstest postest everest.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All those "victimless crime" posts did,initially, have the word "bollocks" echoing around my head,but let`s give the guy some slack. A "crime" is usually defined as "a violation of the law" so that means "the law" is the victim every time a crime is commited,therefore Kermit is correct. ;)

    However,if I was permitted to cross examine Kermit on his assertion I would have to ask "is there evidence of a complaining party ? ". Can you answer that one legal eagle ? :chin:

    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually the vast preponderance of laws are created just to turn otherwise decent folk into criminals to feed a very lucrative criminal jusitce/prison system. The real victims are average citizens who are turned into criminals by the actual criminals in power.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If smoking dope creates a "victim", then so does eating burgers or smoking fags.

    Obvious horseshit.
    There are varying degrees of "victim", but there's no victimless crime.

    That'd be all crime without an injured party. In order for an injury to occur, someone would have to be injured. These days the law seems unable to distinguish between when an injury has occured, and when an injury might, possibly in some chilly alternate universe occur if sets of conditions are met.

    But, then the whole thing is set up for the purpose of getting money. The "crime" bit is just a remnant from it's origins and makes for good PR.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    All those "victimless crime" posts did,initially, have the word "bollocks" echoing around my head,but let`s give the guy some slack. A "crime" is usually defined as "a violation of the law" so that means "the law" is the victim every time a crime is commited,therefore Kermit is correct. ;)

    However,if I was permitted to cross examine Kermit on his assertion I would have to ask "is there evidence of a complaining party ? ". Can you answer that one legal eagle ? :chin:

    seeker

    Can anyone get any sense out of seekers posts? 'cos I can't. I might stick him back on ignore.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Saying smoking a spliff isn't victimless is easy following the same logic that record labels use to say piracy is not victimless.

    I don't think cannabis should be illegal either, it should be noted.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Saying smoking a spliff isn't victimless is easy following the same logic that record labels use to say piracy is not victimless.

    I don't think cannabis should be illegal either, it should be noted.

    Not the same thing at all really. Piracy is while not the strict definition of stealing (as the person is not deprived of what they originally owned) is seen now as a form of stealing as you are not paying for something you own and I don't really see how growing your own weed relates to this?
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