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Have you actually ever left this country? Or is there a parallel planet Earth I'm not aware of?
talk about prejudice in the assumption gays are more feminine
That's as may be - but to come second in the French presidential election suggests that they are quite a large minority.
Moreover, such simplistic surface observation indicated by such sweeping pronouncements as Mat is routinely wont to make, fails to note that the French "Left" vote which was cast was made all the more inefficient by the multiplicity of parties and candidates. This splintering added to first round success of the more unified, albeit minority, Right wing vote (as essentially represented by Chirac's RPR and Le Pen's FN compared with some 12-13 left of centre options).
One can hardly call Le Pen's 16-17% of the first round vote any evidence of the predominant view of the French public. To do so merely highlights the ignorance of the claimant. Even Chirac gained the top spot in the first round on less than 20% of the national vote.
In what strange reality does 16-17% equate to "quite a large minority"?
So about one in six voters voting for the the French equivalent of the BNP is a small minority? I'd say its a significant part of the electorate and hardly evidence of France being a country at ease with its multi-culturalism....
By your reasoning one would have call significant gains made by the BNP at the exlectoral level "proof" of the racist nature of English society.
However if you wish to ignore the problems and claim that there is no far-right problem in Europe keep on deluding yourself. I much prefer the robust British approach to the rise of the Far Right than the ostrich approach you and your fellows seem to advocate.
An argument mind you that he justifies by citing three countries out of 25, one of which (Holland) is demonstrably NOT "institutionally" xenophobic nor intolerant and the other which, has been shown (regardless of what pet beliefs you wish to subscribe to) is far from "overwhelmingly" racist and intolerant.
Stop clinging to inflated tabloid muckraking and put matters in rational perspective.
Any other discussion of far right gains can and should incorporate the UK in with every other European nation (as it IS a European nation like it or not).
And that is the part I disagree with. Mat has a point in that despite the claims of some, certain countries such as France and Spain have much more ingrained racism than the UK. That's not to say that there is no racism in the UK, but compared to many European countries we are tolerant and multi-cultural and your weasel words over the French presidential election in no way change that fact.
Keep living in your Hate Mail bubble of misinformation and spin dear boy. You obviously have no interest to apply much effort or intellect to shaking lose your own clearly xenophobic and nationalistic notions.
I think I acknowledge that, but to equate the BNP 'success' to Le Pens 'success' suggests a Far-Right group is more popular in one place than another.
The British seem to take steps to tackle racism and not all other European countries seem to try as hard.
I'm sure there might be a maverick, low-circulation paper to be found stirring similar racist shit elsewhere. But I have not heard of any other country in Europe where the two best selling newspapers in the land have been conducting a borderline racist hate campaign a la S*n and Daily Mail.
To suggest that Continental Europe is cesspot of prejudice, racism and hatred and that Great Britain is a rare paradise of tolerance in comparison is absurd in the extreme. Things in the Continent are not worse- if anything, they have it better in the Continent than in here.
And even if it were true, which I doubt somehow, aren't you trying in your profound europhobia and prejudice towards almost an entire Continent to pick and choose isolated incidents in order to portray an scenario that doesn't really exist?
It's really funny you chose to make such statements about Europe on a thread relating a homophobic incident. Because, whereas things in Sicily are indeed ugly judging by the story, I can assure you that tolerance towards gays from both the people and at official levels are greater in Continental Europe than they are in here.
Spend some time in the Continent if you have any doubts.
My girlfriend at the time was of Indian descent and her company posted her to Spain - her view was that there was a level of ingrained racism in Spain which was far above the UK and whenever she'd suffered racism in the UK (whether at school or on the streets) it was taken seriously whereas in Spain it was just shrugged off.
I was also in Stoke yesterday (which is one of the most racist English councils with 2 out of 60 councillors being BNP) and they had a petition prominently on display asking people to sign up against racism.
TBH there are people on this board who if they were around in the 1930s would have been screaming about what a threat Oswald Mosely was, whilst saying that Hitler would never gain power.
Get out of your ivory tower in Brussels, stop swallowing the hogwash that posters like Aladdin feed you about Britain being a 'racist' country and realise that the British establishment has done more to combat racism and intolerance than any other EU government - with much success.
Whatever - this society is still racist, and has never ceased to be racist.
Which is more than it can be said about your completely unfounded and insulting insinuations about Continental Europe.
This was late 80s. So things might have improved now... however it might also be that you have a different take on things than a British educated middle class non-practicing Hindu
Do some countries in Western Europe have a marginally bigger number of morons and institutionalised racism? Probably- it'd be impossible for it to be exactly identical in all countries. Are some countries in Europe- namely the UK, to repeat what Matadore was claiming- an oasis of tolerance compared with the rest of the Continent, apparently teeming with homophobes, racists and bigots? The answer is a resounding no.
No country in Europe is predominantly racist. Anyone who claims the opposite should perhaps provide evidence to support such extraordinary claims.
And as I said earlier, it's all the funnier that Matadore's comments and this subsequent debate were prompted by a homophobic incident. Had Matadore ever spent time in Europe, or even done some research or been aware of current affairs, he would have known that Continental Europe can safely hold the prize for the most socially advanced and tolerant place in the entire world regarding gay rights and social acceptance.
no most just firmly believe in keeping a secular state and their religion to their private lives
No, you are wrong. The answer is most definietly yes. In countries like France, Germany and Spain racism is not frowned upon like it is in this country. Whats more Continental governments have never seen fit to legislate to outlaw racism, unlike British ones. One of the few good ideas of the Labour governments of the last century were the race relations laws which have resulted in vastly more harmonious race relations in the UK than in other European countries.
Not to mention the Conservative party ensuring that the far right in this country never became nearly as powerful as it still is on the Continent.
Though it went that way in it's general election campaign....