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Roads are used for most bulk transport in the UK because the road network is good and business areas are served well with roads. The growth in regions like the M4 corridor and the West Midlands in terms of business have meant that the roads are well maintained. If there is no congestion (i.e. no pressure on road space) there is no incentive to develop other ways of getting goods from A to B (e.g. warehouse to shop). Of course company time is spent in traffic jams, but our freedom of travel is what enables us to develop our economy and allows free competition which is not dictated by geography.
Blighting people's lives is just subjective. If seeing a queue of cars on the street is seriously affecting your life then you probably need to get out more. In this country, we can cross the road safely, cars are well maintained and drivers well educated.
The solution - it seems to me - is therefore finding alternatives to bulk road transport, which is wasteful of road space, and developing alternatives to oil burning engines which simply fill our lungs with muck and contribute somewhat to global warming.
You obviously live in a different country to me then.
Bad traffic = bad news for the economy and the environment, amongst other things.
How would cutting congestion solve that problem anyway?
We'll all pay dearly for satellite tracking and PAYG motoring.
You've obviously never lived on a busy road.
What are you trying to say?
We've built the country on private transport. It's how we live. Those of you stuck in inner city London really don't understand the issue, methinks.
What is the issue then? That it's not convenient for you to walk, ooh, 100 yards to the bus stop for the Superoute into town, therefore Cars Are Good.
For rural or inter-urban travel I don't think cars are that bad, if they are full. One person travelling in a car is not so good.
What I dislike is how companies can reclaim tax on company car mileage, but cannot do so on train tickets.
I can't think of anywhere in the north east that isn't within an hour's bus or train of Newcastle. And given the traffic on the western bypass, that's about how long it takes in the car.
Cars have their uses, and they are the most convenient form of travel, but convenience should come at a price. Inter-urban travel is perfectly acceptable in a car, so is rural to urban travel. But city centres should all be completely car-free areas, and people should be given park and ride options to travel in.
It should be a complete blanket ban, punishable by six months disqualification too, just to prevent the uber-rich from buying their way around it.
And some sort of congestion charge as well. Because driving is a privilege as well as a right. I appreciate that many people might genuinely need a car, but many more use it out of laziness. Ideally any congestion charging would be able to differenciate between the two groups, and charge the latter dearly to discourage further use.
I am certainly for some sorting out of transport in this country, I think most of us are, but how to do it?
Road Pricing certainly could solve the problem, it isn't perfect but it is I think a good way better than most other options.
The current system doesn't really help anyone, the road tax disadvantages those with low incomes and those that use a car rarely. The fuel tax disadvantages those who live in rural areas, and lets remember that they aren't all rich.
An efficient road pricing system could really help to sort out these problems. Better public transport is generally available in urban areas, a higher price of using the roads there makes sense. Likewise a charge depending on how and when you use your car makes sense.
Higher charges would be levied at times when road are more congested, to discourage this funnily enough when better public transport is available. The intercity and late night urban routes would probably not be charged to highly.
It should be fairly simple to charge a different set of rates depending upon the fuel efficiency of a vehicle. A sensible (and I’m sure not the way the government would plan it) way of installing the equipment would be to place it on new cars and let is be slowly phased in, it might be a long process but would probably be the easiest.
Public transport needs lots of work it needs to be more integrated and the rail network may well need an overhaul but it is no reason to not try to sort out the roads. We also need to develop alternative fuels and modes of transport, but again not reason to to try to sort out the roads.
The privacy issues are a significant downside but there are ways around it, an account not directly linked to the car could be possible. Maybe a smart card that is required to be used to buy reduced price fuel (tax free), could also be paid for at the petrol station. Such a system could also neatly reduce fraud, the start card could be required to start the vehicle.
Finally we shouldn't pay in total any more than we do now (an effective opposition would soon point out), so moaning that it would cost you so much more, don't be fooled, half [ish] of us should end up paying less. It certainly won't be £1 per mile in all cases!
Like this sentence you mean?
Not me. I think it's fine the way it is. If you wanted a solution you would have goods going to people rather than the other way around, but that's far too fucking sensible for this lot.
>cough< you missed a group of people in the Whitehall region there mate.
I have to admit though, when I used to walk the kid to school, it didn't half amuse me that the women would stand around talking about losing weight, or their yoga class, only to then jump into a 4x4 monstrosity to drive half a mile home.
Alistair Darling is quite fond of bringing up the point that "half the people will pay less". Of course, that means that half the people will pay more, too.
And yes, the 1 pound something per mile is the high end, but still it must apply somewhere, and IMO it's over the top for any journey. For example, a couple of places where I've heard it might be applied are the M62 near Leeds, and the M25. Noone enters those roads at rush hour for fun, and I doubt anyone going on them drives for just one mile, either.
And I'm sure the motor manufacturers will lobby hard against if all new cars would be fitted with these black boxes.
If buses and taxis were fitted with these as well then I could see the point. But of course they won't be and the average motorist is shafted yet again.
Someone on the BBC website posted that he would pay this toll once: on the way to the airport to emigrate, and I personally sympathise with that attiutude.
In no other country would the government get away with it.
It also doesn't flow that if half pay less half will pay more- they could pay the same. Unlikely, I agree, but it could happen.
I don't think road charging in such an intrusive way will ever happen, tbh. More charging schemes will probably come into operation, such as in Leeds city centre and on the M62/M621/M1 roads, but I don't ever expect a GPS system to come into operation.
I think charging per mile is far more sensible than a congestion charge. It removes or at least reduces the problems of congestion around the edge of a charging zone and makes it much fairer for people just travelling a mile or two into the zone.
I take your point that few people choose to drive during peak times, but more effective pricing would see alternatives that are currently too expensive become relatively cheaper. It would also encourage more flexible working times, not possible in all cases I agree, but sitting in traffic jams is no good for anyone. I saw a figure quoted a few years ago (not sure of the source so be wary) but congestion costs each household £10 per week, if you reduce congestion, we gain leisure time and haulage costs fall. It all depends whether you see road pricing as an effective way to solve this. I think it is certainly an idea that needs some thought and privacy issues can be worked around (although if the government would do is a different matter).
That's fine for those that live in Huddersfield, Manchester and Leeds, then. When I was working in Bradford though there is no such train for me from Sheffield. I would have had to have took 3 different trains in total. M62 it is then.
Lots of things "could" happen. We don't know much about the scheme. But the bits I've heard across different sources all seem to indicate that for a person like me, it would cost a lot more.
Flat rate charging of some kind would be more tolerable.
Two from Sheffield. But yes. It's hardly "no choice", it's just not a convenient one.
Well assuming 10p a mile, which for the roads you suggest it seems quite a lot...
.1*50 miles = £5
Currently road tax of between £65-165 a year plus fuel tax, so petrol consumption is around 1.5 gallons a week (around 33mpg), so the tax you pay on fuel is about £2.56 based on a modest 80p a litre.
Assuming you have a tiny car, cheap fuel and uncongested roads are priced at 10p a litre, you'll save about £3 a week - and that is assuming your current costs are low. It is highly unlikely someone in your situation would loose out under this scheme.
Roads are a more valuable asset during peak times, why not pay more for them?
and also try switch haulage from road to rail, and encourage park and ride schemes for cities
The issue with this is it's too broad brushed. There are too many people driving in congested areas, that much is given. But in rural areas journey's are by and large worthwhile due to a lack of alternative. So why reduce the ability & willingness of people making journeys through rural roads when you only want to do so to people travelling in congested areas.
If road tax was abolished, and a tax along these lines (except significantly reduced so it was cheaper) was introduced, would people be happier? On the one hand, people who always use busy roads won't be happy because they're probably going to pay over the £70 or however much road tax is. On the other, is those who don't travel much, PAYG is great for them rather than having to renew an £xx licence every year.
Still, I am a firm believer there still isn't the public transport infrastructure available as an alternative to using busy roads. If you travel by bus you're going to be just as congested, surely? (apart from bus lanes)
thats a chicken and egg argument.......
the problem with government plans is that city roads are busy cause lots of people live there as well, its punishing people for living where theyve possibly grown up