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yes sadly the market costs of you contributing to the wasting of the environment arent enough to encourage you then yeh you can drive as long as you can afford cause as you put it, its a luxury
transportation uses like 80% of oil, thus encouraging users of oil for fuel to cut down a little bit will make our resources last longer
personalyl i find the government very hypocritical especially in terms of aircraft fuel, strangely though were ahead of our kyoto agreement i believe
A very good point. People look at the minimum wage in other countries and are appaled. But then, the cost of living is often cheaper over there too. I noticed this especially in pre-EU Slovenia when I was there. Things were just so much cheaper, you didn't need a massive wage!
Yeah, the car will become outdated soon. God, i'll miss it, being a petrol head, but I hope the future is in more efficient public transport. And hopefully it'll be nicer tobe on. Being on a bus is shite at the moment.
It's almost impossible not to have plenty in the West. A car isn't necessary for most workers in urban areas - rural maybe.
OF COURSE IT'S A LUXURY KERMIT :razz:
It's possible in the future there will be rich buses and poor buses, and there will be a social upper and underclass. I see this developing already prominently in America, with the health service being split further and further. There have been films and science fiction books written about society when it splits in two, to forma perfect Eutopia for some, and a hell for others.
But anyway, back to the point; morrismarina, a car is necessary in a lot of cases. Public transport isn't that great at the moment - it's not convenient or cheap or effective. I use public transport a lot because I don't have a car, but it is a hassle. There are lots of quirks with public transport - once they're ironed out I think cars will become a luxury.
Really?
Why?
Public transport is grotyesquely overpriced, to start with. To get from my house to school it cost me £1.50 each way- child fare- and that was seven years ago. We could do that journey three times for that.
2.5 miles is a long way to walk, it takes nearly an hour. Great in summer, but not so hot when it doesn't get light until 8.45. I don't think children walking alone in dark streets is all the wise, tbh.
Mums have to work too, they don't have the time to walk their kids to school anyway. Maybe if morons stopped claiming that "parenting isn't a job" we'd have some improvement on this.
Though I agree about 4x4s. I don't know whay anyone drives them though, I drive a Fiesta and we always get parking spaces in town when 4x4s wouldn't have a hope of getting in them.
Hopefully not. Hopefully there will just be buses for all to use. Didn't we leave this behind with black and white buses in Racist American times?
I really hope someones will see sense soon. No one will use Public Transport as long as it is rubbish, only the really poor people and those who have no option, like me. Either way, I try to avoid buses where at all possible, because they really are the most awful form of public transport. Trains are so much better.
I noticed in Slovenia they had really nice busses. And in Prauge, cool arse trams. What the hell went wrong over here?
Or maybe, like the most kick arse dream I had, (Short of sexual ones.) cool flying bus type things, shuttle craft... I hope so. :hyper: And big, fast, cool trains too...
our infrastructure has the original layout which is really old especially railways, to fix our railways network we need to effectively rebuild the entire entire entwork to a way that can last be altered and maintained more cost effectively
however being british we only make changes to maintenence here and there,not complete overhauls
like with the omlinson report, he said get rid of exisiting asystem and replace it, but being british the governments and press is like "merge it into the exisiting system"
Often the distances are actually less than 2.5 miles... as little as 1 mile. No surprise kids in this country are ballooning up, when a mile is considered too great a distance to walk.
Up to a third of rush hour traffic in London is related to the school run. There is something very wrong with that.
Sadly people are quite happy to sign away their liberties to an over-interfering, devious Government (who rule over our heads on just 35% of the vote, by the way) if they think it will save them a few pounds.
Personally I'd love to see a system where a state maintained insurance and road tax where all applied to the fuel tax, just to simply everything. Certainly the cost in this proposal seem way too high, but then Labour does seem to have a habit of suggesting something that seems too high so when they reduce it to 10p per mile everyone thanks them for giving in to public pressure (when they might have been the idea in the first place).
its a such a simple system it'd cost a tiny amount to administer and it benefits those who their cars less, and for necessery journeys without being over the top
We like cars, there's nothing wrong with cars. We should invest in alternatives to oil.
As bongbudda says, congestion is self-limiting and is not the business of central government.
I think it does lead to a market failure though and some government intervention is required. Not complete control, but making it less desirable to drive in congestaged places due to fees is one way of intervening.
It's an unacceptable way of intervening. As has probably already been said or quoted in this thread, many people do not drive in the congested areas out of choice, but out of necessity. They almost certainly do not desire to sit in a queue.
Charging to use these areas does not remove that necessity, it simply means that poorer people are forced out of it. That's not any kind of solution in my book.
But if it costs £10 in fees to drive to down, + petrol + parking, then surely some people will think 'oh bugger it' and take the bus? Then, and only when the demand for buses increases will service actually improve, because the government will see it as more of a priority since it affects more people and so more money will be invested in it.
It's hard to pull people towards public transport because a) to improve services you need more revenue which you wont get unless you improve services - chicken and the egg scenario and b) people really do love their cars! The freedom you get with them. To see my girlfriend who lives 2 miles away or so I can either get a bus into town then a different bus back (we live apart angled round leicester, if you understand) or get driven (which takes 10 minutes) or walk (which takes about 40 or so).
So, the government invests money in public transport from other areas, but only so much, to get 'the rest of the way' to how many people should be using public transport (the social optimum rather than the private optimum, which happens when we use our cars as much as we like) then the government may implement push tactics as well. That way you've got two chances to get it to where you want it.
Wish me good luck for my economics AS exams (3 exams in a row) on friday btw
You're assuming that there is a bus. For example, my work is between 17 and 30 miles away, depending on which route I take. There's no bus that will get me there, the best I could hope for would be a train ride and a long walk, which would take maybe twice as long as it does for me now. That's not suitable.
There has to be a service in the first place for it to be able to improve. In fact, part of the train journey that I mentioned before has actually declined in quality in the last year, as there are now half as many trains.
In my opinion you cannot push people towards a service that simply doesn't exist, or is impractical. All that this measure does is impose highly unfair charges.
Good luck.
One day though, a predominantly public transport system would be fantastic. Imagine bullet trains running around on rails all around the city, and frequent buses that were safer and could travel faster, and that cars were demoted to luxury transport or essential transport (like helicopters, private jets, etc. etc.
But that's just my opinion. As it stands the bus service stinks. I still use it though
But for the most part bus services in cities are very good. Where my parents live now we have a bus every 10 minutes, and where I live in Newcastle we have a lo-liner bus every 3 minutes on one road, and every 7 one block along. Newcastle city centre should be closed to cars, IMHO, because there is simply no need to drive into it.
I catch the train to work 56 miles away because it's cheaper than the petrol. Season tickets are the way forward, folks.
I quite agree that the government cannot force people onto an alternative, because it's a free choice. I don't think people have any justification for driving into city centres, but for inter-urban and rural travel I don't think public transport is suitable because it can get very expensive, assuming it exists. Normally for one person driving inter-urban the train is better, because its quicker and slightly cheaper, but if more than one goes its onyl worth getting the train if theres a special deal on.
In fact, the only public transport system I like and use with delight is the London Underground (but even that only really exists north of the river).
It would take a lot for me to get rid of my car. I value my car as more than a tool to get me from A to B. Marques such as TVR, Porsche and Lotus wouldn't exist if it was a simple case of economics.
I get the impression that some people's version of a blissful transport system would be most people sitting on a bus, and the lucky few driving around in Kia Picantos. That isn't something I ever want to see.
If you actually go into central London, you will realise that most of the traffic isn't mums on the school run, but black cabs, buses and white vans. What shall we do to rid the roads of this congestion?
People should leave some time to ensure they get there on time, they should do that on the roads as well as on public transport. Without being nasty, but there are few delays of more than ten minutes, even in London, and if you only allow yourself ten minutes leeway you're a fool.
The Metro in Newcastle is excellent, cheap and fast, and it rarely has any delays on it. It, again, is why people who live in places such as here have no excuse for driving to work if they work at a "normal" time.
Why not?
I don't think public transport is ideal for all things- getting hom from tesco on the bus is a nightmare- and I don't think it's as convenient, but taking an extra five minutes to work is worth saving the world, etc etc.
Buses and taxis don't cause traffic jams, unless there is other traffic to jam behind it. Look at how freely the no-car lanes in Newcastle operate compared to the other lanes.
exactly noone is saying we want you to completly scrap your car, were just saying there are times when its easier or only slightly longer getting somewhere on public transport which is better in the long run and helps other drivers and the environment too
imo kids should be walking to school if they live less than 25mins walk away
i live in london and well if everyone just done something instead of being so god damn greedy it might be okay. Other than for delivery of sorts, there is no reason to drive a car into central london that i can think of considering tube takes less time for me (45mins) and car take about 30mins witohut traffic, but with normal london traffic levels its about an hour
I also think the government has a cheek to bleat on about choice in areas such as healthcare and then expect people not to have freedom of travel. Their disjointed policies beggar belief.
Do we live in the same city??
The no-car lanes are a pet hate of mine, and are a bloomin' nightmare to navigate around.
Why?
I love them. All the mongs in the BMWs get to sit in the traffic jam, whilst my bus home glides effortlessly by, before cutting them up horrifically at the end. Bliss.
I'm asking you why you specifically think it isn't. But it could be the governments concern because - it affects business, it blights peoples lives, it contributes to pollution, etc etc.
Your turn.