If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options
Essential support for under 25s
Essential support for under 25s
Take a look around and enjoy reading the discussions. If you'd like to join in, it's really easy to register and then you'll be able to post. If you'd like to learn what this place is all about, head here.
Comments
You're only making yourself look like an idiot by refusing to engage properly with the argument.
'Read some politics.'
is that what you mean by 'engage properly with the argument.'
if you intrduce technical terms into a discussion like 'means of production'you should be prepared to define them in relation but you can't so you carry on bluffing hoping no-one notices
When did you join the BNP?
Cos, after all we're dealing in crude stereotypes here aren't we ?
and clearly, if everyone on the left is an anrkid or anarchist then everyone on the right is a member of the BNP!
Anyways - enough of that......
The topic, I believe is "what kind of society could replace the one we have at present?"
and we already know your view on it, thankyou caller....
oops ...forgot ...will do after i've stuffed my face with this luvverly chicken that was still clucking yesterday!
seriously ...i'll go have a look now.
just read those two ...
what did i learn?
that i actualy have a label.
unknown to me i'm in the anti consumerist group!
i left the city ...grow chickens and veg and cannabis ...not for money but for me family and freinds.
i recycle ...i buy second hand ...i turn off all the stanby lights at bedtime.
i donate to the third world.
i have a wood burning stove ...(as well as gas) using wood from sustainable welsh forrests.
i throw little away ...would rather pass it on.
can't drive passed a skip without stopping to see if theres 'owt in it i can use ...usualy timber and metal.
i can't stand fashion and labels.
interesting site ...i'll read more.
nothing i disagree with so far.
...and a real plus ...a serious issue being dealt with, with a little humour.
i reccomend everyone go have a look ...NOW.
http://www.enough.org.uk/index.html#cont
Why should I waste my time rewriting what has already been written about hundreds of times? If you want to know what these things are and how they are relevant then there are plenty of resources already on the net explaining concepts like means of production, class and surplus value.
And why should I explain about the relevance of the Spanish Revolution when there are lots of history resources online that explain about the collectivisation of farms and industry by anarchist trade unions? If you can't be bothered to do a little research, to have an intelligent discussion, then that ain't my problem.
If you actually came up with an intelligent analysis and critique of socialist and anarchist ideas and the Spanish Revolution etc, then I might be inclined to take you more seriously. As it is, I think you're a bit of a fool.
...so you can see that I'm well aware of the limitations of a purely Marxist analysis.
Don't you understand
I don't think it is
"The continued wealth and visibility of middle Britain is entirely dependent on the continued impoverishment of working class children in particular."
Sounds a lot like they are suggesting one has to go without if the other wants wealth, which just isnt true.
Things being fair is a nice idea, but legaly enforcing it is troublesome and more often than not causes more hurt than gain.
'means of production' is a phrase trotted out by ppl who quote marx but it is technical as it must be defined in the context of the debate about present-day society
production of what exactly in an era of post-nationalisation more economically diverse than ever before?
any ideas, Vimto?
If you mean the gap between developed and developing countries it definitely doesn’t widen. Compare crawling European 1-2% economic growth with 7-10% typical for many developing countries. If you think it is ’widening gap’ something is bad with your arithmetic.
If you mean the gap inside developed countries it’s cause is simple- the state’s intervention into economy, central planning, welfare state. The state’s efforts regardless of good intentions of politicians always push Lorenz’s curve right from its natural market shape. Oh no, Marxist analysis has no limitations! As Einstein said there are only two infinite things, the Universe and human stupidity. Since Marxism is the most stupid social theory it is limited neither by logics nor by practice nor by science nor by common sense.
Do a bit of research and see how the gap between the rich and the poor was affected in every instance where free market capitalism was exercised.
:rolleyes:
Hmm… I think we are too away from Morrocan’s initial question so I’m starting a new discussion about Welfare State.
Returning to the topic I must say we ( ‘we’ here means humankind) are not absolutely free to choose a kind of society we would prefer to live in. There are laws of economics and laws of ethics which are as objective as laws of physics, so our choice is limited. ( plus there is so called ‘human nature’ but I think it is not too important)
Your already tenous grasp on reality seems to be getting weaker by the day.
So the concentration of global wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people doesn't bother you?
Good analysis and critique of Marxist class theory there. Well done. :rolleyes:
You're on drugs, you must be! LOL!
Its not the gap we should really worry about though, it is the increasing riches of everyone we should be pleased about.
Yes of course there are problems, and yes, the fact some some people have billions while others have none is depressing. But just sharing between us isnt the best solution, its unworkable and will do more harm than good.
I'm not suggesting that we never make any efforts towards this, we should, those less fortunate should be helped. But their poverty isnt directly linked to others wealth.
It certainly is depressing how many people survive on less than a dollar a day. But on average us as the human race are getting richer, living longer and child mortality is decreasing. So rather than harp on about people getting really rich we should be pleased that things are improving.
There is more the western world could do, an end to any export subsidies would be a good start. But we shouldnt feel guilty for being wealthy and we should vilify those with wealth as being evil and exploiting the poor and pushing them down.
there are ceo's making big bucks but they are exceptional clever hi-energy ppl so who should begrudge them apart from whinging failures?
Watch Blair get in again
Except its not, well not completely anyway.
Schools in lower income areas are normally worse, and of course if you can afford it then you can send your kid to private school.
Then leading onto university, those who can afford it dont have to take a job when there and therefore have more time to study.
Its certainly closer than the US, but its still not all that close.
So all state schools are the same are they? And they are all as ood as the top private schools?
You really think that all ceo's are "clever hi-energy ppl" and none of them have had a helping hand up due to class and privilege?
Probably. But they're all a shower of shites.
He wont win the next election, the others will loose it, there is a difference.
I agree it can't be enforced, which is why I'm not a communist.
It is under capitalism. Capital is created by exploitation of workers.
Things are improving in the West. Not really any where else.
I don't feel particularly guilty, but I don't work for a multinational business or bank.
Things are definately improving for workers in China, yes many still live in desperate poverty but the average worker there has seen an improvement over the last 10 years.
What sort of alternative to Capitalism are you suggesting?
Simplistic in the extreme. do you have any notions of business?
Yes, having read CVs of many in the Saturday papers many are Grammar school boys who made good through diligence and hard work
There's not that much to moan about in UK