what kind of society ...

Former Member

could replace the one we have at present?;)
inspired of course by freethepeeps in the meaning of work thread ...but he aint playing.

Former Member

...a decent one?

Former Member

One where the bigots, extremists etc have their own continent and the rest of us can get on with our lifes

Former Member

i ask because theres a lot of people in here who are seriously unhappy with what we have but offer no alternative other than the usual tory labour liberal ukip stuff ...meaning no change there then.
come on ...if capitalism is so awful ...what can we have thats better for all of us in this competative world we live in.

Former Member

I quite like these
http://www.iwca.info/

Former Member

with the technology nowadays surely it wouldnt be that difficult to implement a real democracy, where necessary decisions can be put to the people to vote online for instance or by phone, and the government would carry out our wishes.........there would be no need for different parties as the govt would be neutral and merely represent the people, there would be no secrets or lies being made by the govt, everything would be out in the open, and if the power is so spread out it minimalises the chance of corruption, which is what we have.........as for capitalism, i cant see a way out of that, i'd be happy if it was a bit less ruthless....

Former Member

One where I am dictator and the fat, stupid and ugly are kept away from acceptable society.

Former Member

apollo that would result in the people having more of a say in how this country works without the need for politicians and the accompanying expenses, political grandstanding and bureaucracy, this could result in things getting done without influence from big businesses, special interest groups and professional lobbyists and save money which could be used for things we actually need!!!

Are you some sort of commie? your details have been passed on to MI5...

Former Member

lol i spose if im anti-establishment im either anti-american or a commie......but actually im religious whereas george bush isnt, really hes a twat.

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i ask because theres a lot of people in here who are seriously unhappy with what we have but offer no alternative other than the usual tory labour liberal ukip stuff ...meaning no change there then.
come on ...if capitalism is so awful ...what can we have thats better for all of us in this competative world we live in.

D'ya think that Capitalism is sustainable morrocan?

Do you?

Former Member

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
D'ya think that Capitalism is sustainable morrocan?

Do you?

no.

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
no.

So why not put forward your alternative to Capitalism morrocan? It will collapse or evolve into a new system/ideaology at some point wont it.

Many questions to be asked

Former Member

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
So why not put forward your alternative to Capitalism morrocan? It will collapse or evolve into a new system/ideaology at some point wont it.

Many questions to be asked

i haven't got an alternative mate.
but i don't spend a lot of time slagging off what we have now.
yes i'm well aware of its many faults but i don't know the answers.
i was hoping someone would enlighten me.
some suggest they have answers but don't realy give any.

Former Member

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
So why not put forward your alternative to Capitalism morrocan? It will collapse or evolve into a new system/ideaology at some point wont it.

Many questions to be asked

every form of government has capatalist ideals, most people aren't as ideological as us, it's here to say, in what form, who knows.

Former Member

The older I get, the less I have any answers. I don't think capitalism is sustainable and my politics are idealogically libertarian socialist. But relations between people are not reducible to purely economic materialist Marxist terms - people are complex beings, with all sorts of motivations, both conscious and subconscious. People are capable of horrible abuses of power and it is not as simple as saying that this is down to our capitalist society (something which I have argued with ftp about on another board).
IMO there needs to be some synthesis between a psychoanalytic understanding of human behaviour and a Marxist materialist understaning - about which I have just had a very interesting discussion with my g/f about, who is doing an MA in psychoanalytic psychotherapy, but who also comes from a Maxist perspective.

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll

but i don't spend a lot of time slagging off what we have now.
yes i'm well aware of its many faults but i don't know the answers.

i'm not fussed what we have either, alot of ultra-left people here think we're slaves living in the jurassic period, liven up, life's not that bad and the system isn't that bad either, flawed yes but not in dire need of change

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i haven't got an alternative mate.
but i don't spend a lot of time slagging off what we have now.
yes i'm well aware of its many faults but i don't know the answers.
i was hoping someone would enlighten me.
some suggest they have answers but don't realy give any.

Perhaps you should look whithin yourself for the answer/s morrocan.

It might be that simple...you never know:)

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
The older I get, the less I have any answers. I don't think capitalism is sustainable and my politics are idealogically libertarian socialist. But relations between people are not reducible to purely economic materialist Marxist terms - people are complex beings, with all sorts of motivations, both conscious and subconscious. People are capable of horrible abuses of power and it is not as simple as saying that this is down to our capitalist society (something which I have argued with ftp about on another board).
IMO there needs to be some synthesis between a psychoanalytic understanding of human behaviour and a Marxist materialist understaning - about which I have just had a very interesting discussion with my g/f about, who is doing an MA in psychoanalytic psychotherapy, but who also comes from a Maxist perspective.

where does the conscious mind end and the subconscious begin, every action humans do have an ulterior motive, we're too inert on our own well being, from this, all sorts of shit can happen, couldn't be arsed going on a rant here.

Former Member

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
Perhaps you should look whithin yourself for the answer/s morrocan.

It might be that simple...you never know:)

Are you trying to take the piss now ?

Former Member

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
Perhaps you should look whithin yourself for the answer/s morrocan.

It might be that simple...you never know:)

i can only realy change myself though.
which i have done as a consumer and producer and energy user.
blagsta at least comes up with inteligent ideas about all this.
not that i agree with the workers thing much though i can see the appeal.

Former Member

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Are you trying to take the piss now ?

now?

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
i can only realy change myself though.

Yeah that was my point

Former Member

Originally posted by BeckyBoo
Are you trying to take the piss now ?

No?

Why should I?

Former Member

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
No?

Why should I?

Cos you aint realy saying much, your just putting questions to others now and I am thinking your trying to wind Rolly up so he will start slagging off at you.

Former Member

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
Yeah that was my point

so your saying that the changes i have personaly made will usher in a new world order?

Former Member

Originally posted by turlough
where does the conscious mind end and the subconscious begin, every action humans do have an ulterior motive, we're too inert on our own well being, from this, all sorts of shit can happen, couldn't be arsed going on a rant here.

Is it not the evolution of the human condition though turlough?

Former Member

Originally posted by apollo_69
with the technology nowadays surely it wouldnt be that difficult to implement a real democracy, where necessary decisions can be put to the people to vote online for instance or by phone, and the government would carry out our wishes.........there would be no need for different parties as the govt would be neutral and merely represent the people, there would be no secrets or lies being made by the govt, everything would be out in the open, and if the power is so spread out it minimalises the chance of corruption, which is what we have.........as for capitalism, i cant see a way out of that, i'd be happy if it was a bit less ruthless....

I'm not sure about this technology thing at all - theres real doubts about the Republican party voting machines being used in the states. Votes counted with no paper trails - lubbly jubbly ........

And the politicians would just get very good at manipulating the questions that the public got to vote on - working hand in hand with the corporate media of course.

Politicians aren't going to change.

Nor are corporations, and the IMF/WB/US neo-liberalisation programme is speeding up the growth of super corporations that exert much power through their size and wealth.

The short term pursuit of profits, without any regard for the social or human costs is not going to go away in a hurry either .... till the oil runs out anyway, or the weather destroys a lot of the infrastructure.

I think power itself is a problem, concentrate it in a few hands and it WILL be abused.

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
so your saying that the changes i have personaly made will usher in a new world order?

Naaah...you've lost me on this one here

Former Member

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
Naaah...you've lost me on this one here

do you ever actualy contribute anything?
don't be afraid ...i get thngs wrong ...i have my point of view sharpened or even changed ...no need to feel shame ...

Former Member

Originally posted by Kentish
now?

I gave him he benefit of doubt earlier

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
so your saying that the changes i have personaly made will usher in a new world order?

No, it may change your day to day life, but the problems won't go away - I don't believe that individuals can change it on their own -

It requires enough people saying "ENOUGH!"