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Environment

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Environmental protection is humans trying to halt the planet's natural cycle of hot and cold periods. Discuss.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Environment
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Environmental protection is humans trying to halt the planet's natural cycle of hot and cold periods. Discuss.
    possibly.
    but ...burning the ammount of stuff we do has to have a huge impact ...along with tearing down the forrests ...the lungs of the world.
    the oceans are dying ...look at the crap wepour into them.
    all male species seem to be becoming sterile ...something is seriously wrong.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Everything we do in the way of greenhouse gases pales to insignificance when one considers the environmental impact of a volcanic explosion like St Helens.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Everything we do in the way of greenhouse gases pales to insignificance when one considers the environmental impact of a volcanic explosion like St Helens.
    mmmm.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The question is, how much give is there in the system, and which way is the planet supposed to be going, hot or cold?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Our actions when it comes to the production of Greenhouse Gases are probably having an effect on the environment and to the planets weather system.

    The problem which scientists have is the fact that they are not sure what the effects of pumping these gases into the atmosphere. It might lead to an increase in temperature but then again it might not.

    An interesting article about Global Climate Change

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3737160.stm
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is unequivocal, consistent and massive evidence to suggest we're heading for a disaster as a direct result of man-made pollution.

    The only ones to deny this are neo-con cunts, tinfoil hat wearers and- surprise surprise- scientists on the payroll of oil corporations.

    An environmental disaster does not mean planet earth is going to end. But it means hundreds of millions of people will die through famine. flooding and extreme weather conditions.

    Perhaps another ice age in the future is inevitable. But that does not mean we should help it along and make it happen in 50 years time as opposed to 5,000.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    An environmental disaster does not mean planet earth is going to end. But it means hundreds of millions of people will die through famine. flooding and extreme weather conditions.

    But there have been periodical environmental disasters regardless of human interferance. Why is it we want or need the planet to stay as it is, why can't we accept that the planet will change regardless of what we do, and the only thing perhaps we should be doing is minimising our impact?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Earth's enviorment has changed over time due to natural occurances that has been proven.

    But the present change in the enviorment has not been caused by nature but by people's actions which can be either stopped or slowed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah, but, we know that we were coming out of an ice age, and that the world fluctuates between ice ages where ice covers nearly all of the north and south to the lines of the tropics, and hot periods, where the ice caps retreat and the temperature and humidity soars even in the far north and south. So how are we so sure this isn't just part of the cycle?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    So how are we so sure this isn't just part of the cycle?
    we can't be 100% sure.
    we can be sure that we are poisoning ourselves ...our water ...our wildlife ...our fauna ...our oceans.
    we are burning holes in the roof.
    all these things we can slow down on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    we are burning holes in the roof.

    That we can agree on. ChloroFlouroCarbons are not naturally occuring, or at least not abundantly. They break up O3 which is Ozone, so that is entirely the fault of ignorant scientists.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We're cutting down trees... I love trees :crying:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    We're cutting down trees... I love trees :crying:
    the welsh pine forrests are amazingly well managed.
    saw mills are a big industry here in north wales.
    moonrat you will be aware i pressume of a company not far from you called kronaspan in chirk ...all day every day 365 days of the year huge logging trucks are in and out ...they have the biggest pile of firewood i ever saw!
    when i first moved here i was gobsmacked by it.
    then i discovered hundreds of sawmills with all these trees arriving daily.
    i thought the welsh forrests would dissapear within a month!
    but ...on being taken round the corwen forrest by a forrestry guy when i was getting my permit ...he explained that they are managed in such a way as to get bigger year on year ...how they manage it is unknown to me.
    i do know that most trees are not allowed to grow to maturity and are in fact cut down at around seven years old. (why B&Q pine is shite.) these forrests also provide for a couple off massive papermills on deeside.
    so at least some good news. the forrests supply employment on a grand scale and raw materials and keep on getting bigger.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    even if we wont be affecting things much by cutting down CO2 emissions, one things for sure, our oil supply is limited, which is reason in itself to make sure we use it efficiently to mkake it last longer, the amount of things we use that rely upon oil are scary, drugs, clothings, plastics, fuel - of whom the biggest use is fuel in cars and industry, which is what we have to manage well
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    we should be encouring the planting of hemp ...yes cannabis.
    it is one of the easiest crops to grow ...anywhere in the world in any climate.
    it improves the soil. it is not labour intensive. needs no pesticides.
    it produces top quality bio diesel. canvas. (the word cannabis is egyptian for canvas). make ropes ...replaced by nylon which is very bad environmentaly ...clothes ...seed oils ...medicines ...
    building materials.
    one of the reasons hemp production was stopped in america and then across the world under pressure from the americans ...was for simple greed by the oil companies once they had discovered how to maufacture nylon.
    yes ...lets all smoke old rope and save the world.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    So how are we so sure this isn't just part of the cycle?

    It may very well be part of a cycle, but damage to the physical environment is just one concern. For example more people than ever before are being diagnosed with asthma and other respiratoy conditions. Adults are actually developing asthma and health professionals are blaming things such as pollution. Surely minimising the effect we have on the environment can't hurt, so why not at least try?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Other things to be considered in all these health risks is our diet. Some may blame polution, but the additives in food can't be doing us much good either.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Other things to be considered in all these health risks is our diet. Some may blame polution, but the additives in food can't be doing us much good either.

    Yes, fair enough for things like heart disease etc, but nobody is really blame that on the environment. Even those without any medical training can see an immediate link between asthma, COPD etc and the environment (inc. being in smoky environments)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not necessarily, people aren't really sure what causes asthma. So it can't arbitrarily be blamed on a smoky/poluted environment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if you look at the damage our shit is causing to stone brick marble and even granite ...what the hell is it doing to our soft tissues?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    define 'our shit' in this particular instance Mr rolly?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Not necessarily, people aren't really sure what causes asthma. So it can't arbitrarily be blamed on a smoky/poluted environment.

    There are several known causes of asthma and I'm sure if you ask someone who suffers with more than mild asthma they'll know fine well what causes theirs (for example someone I work with has chronic asthma that is set off by aerosols and smoke)

    To be fair though that isn't really the main concern of the topic. I've already put forward my thoughts on it, I can't see why there is a need to argue about it. Surely those with common sense would agree that minimising the effect we have on the environment can only be a good thing?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    define 'our shit' in this particular instance Mr rolly?
    do i have to!
    emmisions from cars and power plants and factories and refineries and ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    do i have to!
    emmisions from cars and power plants and factories and refineries and ...

    Yes, but we've already established that our emissions pale in the considerations of 'natural' emissions, havn't we. Also considering they chemical damage of which you speak, they're reactions that don't occur with our soft tissues.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Yes, but we've already established that our emissions pale in the considerations of 'natural' emissions, havn't we. Also considering they chemical damage of which you speak, they're reactions that don't occur with our soft tissues.
    i'm not convinced our soft tissues don't get effected ...my heart and lungs etc are soaking in this stuff.
    volcanoes don't pump it out 24hrs a day in your street in your house in the shops etc etc.
    even our buidings are attacking us ...vinyl floors ...etc etc.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BumbleBee
    There are several known causes of asthma and I'm sure if you ask someone who suffers with more than mild asthma they'll know fine well what causes theirs (for example someone I work with has chronic asthma that is set off by aerosols and smoke)

    These aren't causes, they're triggers. Aerosols and smoke set off the symptoms, but they don't necessarily cause the disease
    Originally posted by BumbleBee
    To be fair though that isn't really the main concern of the topic. I've already put forward my thoughts on it, I can't see why there is a need to argue about it. Surely those with common sense would agree that minimising the effect we have on the environment can only be a good thing?

    I agree that minimism our impact is a good thing. Are we really to blame for the apparent effects of global warming though?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Yes, but we've already established that our emissions pale in the considerations of 'natural' emissions, havn't we. Also considering they chemical damage of which you speak, they're reactions that don't occur with our soft tissues.

    but we arent helping, and the smog bowls that surround LA and many other cities round the world

    and yes there amy be a natural cycle, but they tend to be regular, in terms of prediction and they occur in sycles, what were doing is changing seasonal weather patterns, to point research says we need to cut oil based CO2 emissions by 80% whilst kyoto is only 15% on 1990 levels
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    i'm not convinced our soft tissues don't get effected ...my heart and lungs etc are soaking in this stuff.
    volcanoes don't pump it out 24hrs a day in your street in your house in the shops etc etc.
    even our buidings are attacking us ...vinyl floors ...etc etc.

    Some volcanoes are permanently active, and other are active for long periods of time prior to and post erruption. More to the point the ammount of debri flung from a volcano during erruption is really vast ammounts.
    Studies by scientists at the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) have revealed the compositions and amounts of gases released from several active volcanoes in the U.S. (Alaska, Cascades, Hawaii). As an example, USGS scientists studying the gases of Mount St. Helens have determined that about 2 million tons of sulfur dioxide were emitted between 1980 and 1988. Sensors aboard a satellite detected about 1 million tons of sulfur dioxide injected into the stratosphere during the main eruption on May 18, 1980. Another half-million tons of sulfur dioxide was dissolved in water droplets attached to ash particles that eventually fell to earth. The remaining half-million tons was emitted from the volcano during the eight years following the initial eruption.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Some volcanoes are permanently active, and other are active for long periods of time prior to and post erruption. More to the point the ammount of debri flung from a volcano during erruption is really vast ammounts.
    there may well be some built in mechanism then for dealing with such natural events.
    like the oceans and the rain forrests both of which we have stripped and damaged.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Fiend_85
    Are we really to blame for the apparent effects of global warming though?

    Yes, I think we are. :)
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