jesus and god?

Former Member

is it possible to believe in Jesus as the son of man but not as the son of man? because there is no denying that jesus didnt exist but you cant be sure god does.
i just got back from a catholic retreat today that my college offers to its students and although i'm not religious i am very spiritual and while i was there htis question was raised within me. i have a feeling that somehting is trying to connect with me but i'm not sure what. i've been looking up Unitarian Universalist. i like its open-mindedness but i would like someone more of my own age (16) to give a response. you know someone that is religious. and has a view.
XoXoXo

Former Member

not sure that made a lot of sense ...

Former Member

ok. can u believe in jesus as the son of man and not in God? coz like ppl follow like che and lenin etc but there's no denying that jesus was the biggest revolutionary eventhough he might not have done all those miracles and even if you're not religious in anyway. hmm

Former Member

Originally posted by Super-human
ok. can u believe in jesus as the son of man and not in God?

well i'm a son of man ...but the man i'm the son of didn't believe in god.

Former Member

You need to try that again buddy, what is your point?

Former Member

Originally posted by Fiend_85
You need to try that again buddy, what is your point?

it's not just me then ...

Former Member

oh whatever. im clutching at straws as to find summit i believe in. dont put the downers on it

Former Member

I think super-human means 'can you believe in Jesus the philosopher, Jesus the good samaritan as a force of good and peace without subscribing to the supernatural stuff'?

The answer is yes.

Former Member

Look, to be honest, if you've got a religion question then you need to talk to someone who really knows about what you want to ask. Because here you'll get nothing but conflicting opinions and no real answers. That's why it's a debate forum. I think you'll be disapointed.

Former Member

Originally posted by Super-human
oh whatever. im clutching at straws as to find summit i believe in. dont put the downers on it

no ones knocking you ...just we can't understand what your saying ...re read it yourself and then retype it maybe.

Former Member

i don't really care as lond as it actually means summit and ur actually making a point. summit a bit constructive maybe.

Former Member

Originally posted by Super-human
i don't really care as lond as it actually means summit and ur actually making a point. summit a bit constructive maybe.

but i don't understand what your saying!
aladdins point was right ...wrong?

Former Member

Unitarian Universalist. look it up maybe then you'll understand it. its a kinda form of atheism that are very liberal but still religious (but its just full of a load of old farts). i dunno its just a question i had and i thought someone might be able to say yes or no and a reason. and maybe from someone who actually knows what there talking about

Former Member

aladdins right

Former Member

here lets see if this works. you know the hole father son and the holy spirit? and your sposed to need all three to believe? well what if you only believe in the son and not the other two?

Former Member

Originally posted by Super-human
here lets see if this works. you know the hole father son and the holy spirit? and your sposed to need all three to believe? well what if you only believe in the son and not the other two?

then you believe in a historical man but you don't believe in god.

Former Member

yeh kinda but more than that. i dunno what i think. thas why im asking questions. trying to find some answers.

Former Member

how do you know jesus existed, no one knows if he did

Former Member

Originally posted by turlough
how do you know jesus existed, no one knows if he did

he was mentioned in the writtings of joesephus ...roman historian wasn't he?

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
he was mentioned in the writtings of joesephus ...roman historian wasn't he?

i think boris johnson also mentioned him somewhere

Former Member

Perhaps you've heard the phrase currently used in the Middle East, "mother of." The "mother of all geniuses" means ... "the ultimate genius." ... The words son of works in a similar way.

In the Gospels ... we find that peaceful people are called "sons of peace," two rambuntious brothers are called "sons of thunder," ... In this sense "son of man" - another of Jesus' favourite terms for himself - would mean "the essential human, the ultimate embodiment of humanity."

And in this sense "Son of God" would mean "embodying God" or "carrything the essence of God," ... This likeness is what the earliest followers of Jesus were so struck with. When they were around Jesus, they felt - no, more than that, they somehow knew - they were experiencing God.

I couldn't put my point better than Brian McLaren (A Generous Orthodoxy, p72) so that's why I copied this out. The reason Jesus is called Son of Man and Son of God in the Gospels is because the people who lived with him, spent time with him, worked and talked and ate with him recognised, no knew that he was the epitomy of both humans as a whole, and God.

Don't know if that helps - but you might find Brian McLaren's books interesting.

Former Member

Originally posted by turlough
how do you know jesus existed, no one knows if he did

There's plenty of historical evidence in support of the existence of Jesus, google it. He was killed by the Romans, they were meticulous in keeping records. As Roll said, Josephus is one historian who recorded Jesus.

I think it's very plausible to think that Jesus was simply a very influencial human with immense charismatic power who appealed to a lot of people at a time when the Jews were looking for someone to get the Romans out of Israel and some salvation.

Obviously all of his exploits would have been passed by word of mouth and naturally got bigger and more fanciful until it very quickly becomes fact that Jesus performed miracles. Especially in a society where Religion had a lot more credibility than science. Everything would be explained in terms of religion, ie Jesus is so great because he's the Son of God.

Just some of my views

Former Member

you can believe in jesus as a good man and not god or the holy spirit, but you wouldn't be classed as a christian.

Former Member

Originally posted by Tim the Enchanter
There's plenty of historical evidence in support of the existence of Jesus, google it. He was killed by the Romans, they were meticulous in keeping records. As Roll said, Josephus is one historian who recorded Jesus.

I think it's very plausible to think that Jesus was simply a very influencial human with immense charismatic power who appealed to a lot of people at a time when the Jews were looking for someone to get the Romans out of Israel and some salvation.

Obviously all of his exploits would have been passed by word of mouth and naturally got bigger and more fanciful until it very quickly becomes fact that Jesus performed miracles. Especially in a society where Religion had a lot more credibility than science. Everything would be explained in terms of religion, ie Jesus is so great because he's the Son of God.

Just some of my views

did you know ...jesus fulfilled over three hundred phrophecy in the old testament about the coming messiah?
from his place of birth to riding into town on an ass ...to being killed and to the fact no bones in his body would be broken ...as a rule they would break your legs after hanging on that stake ...to end your suffering.
when the legs went your body weight would suffocate you ...
impressive.

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
did you know ...jesus fulfilled over three hundred phrophecy in the old testament about the coming messiah?
from his place of birth to riding into town on an ass ...to being killed and to the fact no bones in his body would be broken ...as a rule they would break your legs after hanging on that stake ...to end your suffering.
when the legs went your body weight would suffocate you ...
impressive.

I can't say I did know that, but surely a lot of these fulfillments could come from manipulation of events by Jesus or his followers (eg the riding into town) manipulation of recording these events by the Apostles or even simple coincidence.

The fact that the spiritual side of Jesus' life was only recorded by the Apostles means that it can't be taken entirely seriously as historical fact.

Former Member

Originally posted by Tim the Enchanter
I can't say I did know that, but surely a lot of these fulfillments could come from manipulation of events by Jesus or his followers (eg the riding into town) manipulation of recording these events by the Apostles or even simple coincidence.

The fact that the spiritual side of Jesus' life was only recorded by the Apostles means that it can't be taken entirely seriously as historical fact.

most of the prophecies could not be manipulated ...if i can i'll have a look tomorow where even herod is named hundreds of years before his birth ...as playing his part in all this ...the peices of silver ...the washing of hands of the matter ...times and places ...it realy is remarkable.

Former Member

Originally posted by morrocan roll
most of the prophecies could not be manipulated ...if i can i'll have a look tomorow where even herod is named hundreds of years before his birth ...as playing his part in all this ...the peices of silver ...the washing of hands of the matter ...times and places ...it realy is remarkable.

Hmmm... I guess I'm just suspicious of the prophecies overall. I mean, they're so old and have been open to so much change and manipulation over the millenia that they could have been easily changed to suit the events in Jesus' life.

Hell, I don't know, it just seems too vague and too difficult to prove with cold hard fact.

Former Member

Originally posted by Tim the Enchanter
Hmmm... I guess I'm just suspicious of the prophecies overall. I mean, they're so old and have been open to so much change and manipulation over the millenia that they could have been easily changed to suit the events in Jesus' life.

Hell, I don't know, it just seems too vague and too difficult to prove with cold hard fact.

no because we are in posession of ancient parchments and stones that say the same thing then as today.
and don't forget ...i'm not a religous person but facts is facts.

Former Member

so you believe in jesus but not the bible? im confused i didnt think the two were mutually exclusive....

Former Member

Originally posted by apollo_69
so you believe in jesus but not the bible? im confused i didnt think the two were mutually exclusive....

i didn't say and have never said i don't believe stuff in the bible ...i hate religion.
for thousands of years certain kings and cities were pressumed to be myth ...on;ly mentioned in the bible ...no trace of them in the real world ...until these places were excavated and the names of the kings were found carved in stone.
in the book of job it is explained that the world is round ...it took a couple of thousand years before anyone would believe it.
in the book of leviticus it explains how to handle dead bodies and disease ...how important it was to wash afterwards ...thousand of years before anyone even suspected there were microscopic germ carriers ...to impressive to write off.

Former Member

Originally posted by apollo_69
so you believe in jesus but not the bible? im confused i didnt think the two were mutually exclusive....

that applied to the thread starter or rolly and tim?

it has been proven historically that a man called jesus exists. therefore, you can believe in jesus and that he was a good man.

the bible could have been a story that exists without jesus being an actual man- so you can believe in jesus and not the things that are said in the book.

i hope people understand what i'm trying to say!!