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Same as car mechanics shouldnt be compulsory if the child is gifted at languages or is an able mathematician (even though learning how to fix a car is probably a handier skill in life than advanced maths, which there are hardly any jobs in - apart from teaching maths!)
spose its better than nothing
I got an A in GCSE maths and I can't even do 8x7 in my head. Really. That is pathetic, I know. When I was tested age 16 I was great at being able to work out the length of the longest side of a triangle, but I still used a calculator to do 8x7 (or most other multiplications). I think this shows that the maths children are taught post 14 is useless. You are tested on your ability to apply formulae not on any skill you're likely to need. Me getting an A grade in GCSE maths looks great on a CV but in reality I don't even have a basic grasp of the subject.
Saying that, I don't think it should be optional, I believe they should rethink what they teach and the way it is taught.
I personally think subjects such as history are more important, but then I'm being swayed by personal experience.
If you don't know how to read an instruction manual it's hard to fix a car, if you don't know how to count it's hard to be a carpenter. Or a builder.
Where the line is drawn is something that is debatable, but there has to be a certain period of academic study before anything else can take place. It isn't a "superiority complex", it's the way of the world- if you can't count and can't spell it's hard to do very much of anything.
Science shouldn't be complusary, however, because science is boring, pointless, bollocks. I don't care WHY my lights turn on, just that they do.
That is the actual point of advanced maths though. To know formulas and apply them correctly. For the rest you have a calculator.
Also it does promote logical thinking. That said, I didn't choose to study maths this year, as I think I have the base for what I want to do later in life.
Yes its good for people to have a basic knowledge of maths - im not disputing that. I dont think tis essential for everyone in the country to have those two extra years, because I believe that in a lot of cases, those two extra years are completely wasted anyway and certain kids would be better off just getting a job.
My sister in law for example. Shes 17 and thick as shit (to be blunt) A complete chav. She went to school though for what good it did her, but she didnt even bother going to collect her exam results because she didnt care, and she knew she failed them all anyway. She then got a job at 16 as an apprentice hairdresser and shes worked her way up really quickly because shes quite talented in that area.
In my opinion she could have gone to hairdressing college at 14 because her last two years at school were a waste of time and resources.
Post 14 maths in this country isn't called 'advanced maths' it is just a continuation of pre-14 maths. Advanced maths is learnt post 16 when it is optional.
Edit: My point actually is, what is the point in learning stuff like that anyway if you can't add up basic numbers, which a lot of people can't?
The point of maths is the problem solving skills that it gives you. For any given question there are initially several different methods of solving, or needed to solve, the problem. The way you are required to, and learn to, think for maths can be applied to all areas of life.
I'm sure we all can agree that being able to do simple maths is necessary for work. But the underlying skills that are built on aged 14-16 are just as essential.
What part of my post didn't you understand? The reason she got such a highly saught after placement in her law career (something you class as totally seperate from a chosen path in languages) is because she was fluent in french.
This idea you have that knowing a language only benefits you in a career in languages, that some knowledge of the more advanced elements of maths is only relevant to becoming a mathemstician is completely false.
I did GCSE french - I got an F. I hated it. My mum made me take it. I wanted to take music instead but couldnt because the options were set out weird - I had to take one or the other, and because id already chosen two arts subjects - art and drama (which I was good at and passed) She said I should do a language. I hated it, I couldnt get my head round it and failed miserably. If id have taken music i would have probably passed.
She was good at french so she took the course and passed. That doesnt mean everyone will, so why make a hell of a lot of people waste their time when they could be doing something they enjoy and are good at.
Im not arguing for people not being allowed to take french, maths and english. Just for people to do other options if they would prefer.
but seriously jus cause you dont know 8x7 it aint the schools fault for not teaching you that, by 14 THEY EXPECT YOU to know it, my primary school drummed the time table up to 10x10 in my head and i still know it, and its useful i only remember odd examples above that
surely having a workforce that is competant in all forms of thinking leads to a more flexible one that doesnt suddenly lead to mass unemplyment, think back to miners, bet they were like "oh i dont need to learn communication skills cause i got a job in pits when i fininsh school" then what happens, the mines get shut and suddenly that specially skilled workforce all goes into long term unemployment
at GCSE you dont need to be great at the subject, all you need to do, is DO THE WORK SET OUT TO YOU and you can get a decent grade, im crap at analysing novels i still managed a D at english lit GCSE cause i worked my socks off, was hard but you dont expect the school to spoonfeed you, do you
I suspect that being forced to take a language had very little to do with you actual grade, and more to do with the level of work put in. It's often the case. For example I have severe dyslexia, but people may have noticed by now that my spelling and grammar are fine. I worked at it. I hated english until GCSE because I couldn't do it. I took Eng Lit for As and even managed to get a C. One of my best grades.
The lessons I enjoyed were not necessarily the same as the ones everyone else enjoyed. Loads of kids hated art, but I gave up my lunchtimes to sit in the art room and even did some after school stuff. I went to an after school chemistry club too, because I enjoyed it. Forcing kids is the wrong way to go and breeds resentment. It doesnt get the best out of them.
however, i'm pretty sure that if we were given the choice of all subjects that we had to do, with no guidelines, people would just doss out. or specialise way too early.
GCSEs are designed to give people a wide spectrum of learning and knowledge and give additional skills as a balance to the specialised learning of their chosen field.
i believe that having at least one language at GCSE is a good thing. the english are becoming all too complacent these days, expecting the world to make an effort to learn english and not reciprocating the respect.
languages are also learnt totally differently to other subjects, giving you base skills for future development.
even getting a "crap" grade at GCSE puts you in good stead for learning another language that you'd be more interested in the future.
yes many british people are useless in the manner of speaking a foreign language, but we are very insulated and since english is a very global language, we are not helped in that respect either
so the best way to look at it is likely that it doesnt matter how good you are at dealing with foreign languages, at least if you try or have tried
I find that people from other countries who can speak english are happier about speaking to me in english if have at least tried in their language to to find a mutual foreign language ie french, for us to talk in. Trying earns a lot more respect than just learning
Parlez-vous anglais ? or Sprechen Sie Englisch? etc.
just a "merci" or "xie xie" is good enough (french and chinese). the chinese people are so enthused when you mutter even just one word in their language that they get all flustered and excitd and flatterd!
unfortunately only a small percentage of people live on the borders of countries.
it's not just the isolation that affects our willingness, it's the globalisation and decline of nationalisation that's contributing.
Learning is all about attitude. If you cop one, you'll do crap. If you try hard, you'll do better.
Have you been dyslexia tested? Maybe that's why spelling is so hard for you?
Knowing can really help, as you can then work out ways of dealing that really means you can improve.
Thats all very well but at that age do children/youngsters think about what they want to do in the future, most jobs require maths/english or science at a C or above.
When i was at school i wanted to be a vet, however when i had done work experience (year 10 - age 15), done a year of sixth form and matured a little to consider my options and grades, i decided that teaching was my job, by this time i realsied i was lucky to have my GCSEs that was required (maths, english and science C and above)
Just say this a teenager who gets stroppy with all subjects at some point, frustrated that they cannot do a topic will give any subject up if it means a better life, or rather an easier time.
When i was 14 i would have given up maths, so i could have a better time, yet i knew i had to work hard, i achieved C.
Unless a student knows they want to do something involving maths they will give it all up, but lets not forget many youngsters do not know what they want at Alevel let alone, KS3!
Most jobs don't require maths or a science.
No-one's denying the need for people to have some sort of mathematical education, but it would be better all round if course choices allowed, say, one option other than maths (maybe a foreign language or a science).
Plenty of people know maths isn't their strong point and will not go into a career requiring it as a pre-requisite. Forcing them to do it is not doing anyone any favours.
I can agree, that jobs don't directly need science skills. But problem solving intrinsic to maths can and does get used in most lines of work.
Problem solving is basic logic and clear thinking, i don't think making people 14-16 do maths is going to improve that. Calculating angles and all the rest of it ain't proper problem solving.
One subject that is correctly compulsory is english, the skills gained from that type of shit are invaluable.
The way maths works, encourages and excercises logic and clear thinking, without these skills a person cannot do maths. When a person practices maths skills logic and clarity of thought are brought to bear. Maths and logic are so closely linked as to be inseparable, a person cannot totally have the one, without the other.
I'm relatively logical yet was terrible at maths.
Practice makes perfect. I have the same problem, but am intending to be an engineer.
Being logical doesn't automatically make you good at maths, practicing maths skills makes you better at logic.