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making maths optional at 14
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3561678.stm
bloody stupid is what i say, when they make language, pe and maths optional all it means is more kids takin up easier subjects
i might have hated doing french, but it showed me a new way of thinking about things, which is what maths does, and what most people forget is that, unless they do a job which requires regular maths, the last time they do proper maths is at school
:banghead:
bloody stupid is what i say, when they make language, pe and maths optional all it means is more kids takin up easier subjects
i might have hated doing french, but it showed me a new way of thinking about things, which is what maths does, and what most people forget is that, unless they do a job which requires regular maths, the last time they do proper maths is at school
:banghead:
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Comments
I don't care if the kids "hate" it, they are valuable skills.
What does it matter if people do maths or not? If you're not planning on a career/doing a uni course requiring mathematical qualifications then it's pointless. Being numerate is all that's needed. As for foreign languages, people who have no desire to learn one generally don't bother to pay attention anyway. Waste of time and money.
Whethr they pay attention or not is irrelevant, unles you propose we don't make kids go to school if they think it's "boring".
advanced maths, which would be the advanced algebra, theories, etc.
working life maths, which would be numbers, percentages, problem solving, graphs, all that sort of stuff that you will possibly use again once you leave school
and possibly a kind of mechanical/physics maths course.
A friend and I thought of this during a maths lesson at school last year, and the teacher thought it would be a better idea, because the students may actually learn more if they know it's going to benefit them in the future, and by choosing what type of maths you take you can decide which you think will benefit you most - if that made any sense
so everyone got a variety even if they didnt like it, cause lets face most people seriously dont know what they want to do with theeir life at 14, im 19 and still dont and im at uni
and you cant say maths is 'useless', you can say english is useless as they can read and write, and the same for science etc etc
what is this country coming to, a nation of psychologists and media studies students
schoolkids need variety and depth, not someone doing media film and photography gcses wanting to be an interior designer!?
I've lost count of the number of times i've needed to be able to work out what percentage of my wage is taxable, and how much I can expect in my bank account after interest e.t..c.
I've lost count the number of times I've come across a foreign person at work and been unable to communicate with them effectively, which in something more serious than someone asking for directions could be life threatening.
Another language is an infinitely useful thing to have, because there are about 4 billion people in the world who DONT speak English.
Agreed, these are all skills taht are needed for jobs at large. a basic knowledege of science maths english and foriegn languages all ahve impacts on employment oppurtunities.
we were in the honours maths class and the teacher could just about speak english. the other honours class in our year had 5 different maths teachers in the first year of gcse's, without stability and good teaching, how are we supposed to achieve?
the maths teaching at our school is quite horrendous though, to a point where the head of maths said to my mum that if i wanted to get an A/A* i should go and get private tutoring as they couldn't cater for my teaching needs.
i think maths should definitely be compulsory as it teaches linear thinking as well as actual maths skills.
rainbow brite, with the kids in our school who are disruptive and don't really have a chance of passing exams they generally let them go to do apprenticeships in car mechanics or building/ painting decorating which i think is a good idea as not everyone benefits in a school environment
I dont see how that would be possible if certain subjects were compulsory. For some things, teachers are just fighting a losing battle and a good education means finding out what individual kids are interested in and good at - EVERYONE is good at something, but I hate this `one size fits all` approach to education. Children are expected to learn all subjects even if they are naturally poor at it, are never going to get their heads round it, and would be better just getting a job and learning a trade that will benefit them for life.
I still think that maths, science, english and a foreign language should be taught without question to everyone up to 16, that doesn't mean that people can't start practical courses/apprenticships at 14 though. I think the practical courses are the way forward, people learn a skill without the presure of exams. A useful skill at that.
basic maths and English can be taught up to 14 - thats 9 years of learning! The last two years should be spent doing things towards what you want as a career.
I always thought that as/a-levels were the last two years actually. Just because it's compulsory doesn't means it's the end. Education isn't yet good enough to cut maths english science etc back to 14 and for people still to know enough.
Its not as if people arent going to know any maths by the age of 14 and they learn it all in the last two years. People learn the majority before them, and the last two years is just working towards an exam, which a hell of a lot of kids havent got a hope in hell of passing anyway. The current system as it is, you cant get a decent grade in maths unless youre in the top set anyway. I was in set two for maths so the highest grade I could have hoped to achieve was a C. I ended up getting a D. Now I dont even count my D grades tbh, so what was the point?
I think basic science, maths and English is a must, but you can learn it before 14, and then if you enjoy it, are good at it or think youll need it in your career, then carry on with it. If you know from an early age that you want to be a mechanic or a painter and decorator, then whats the point of learning algebraic equations or quantum theory?
To be fair, it's not fair to say that a lot of people don't have a hope of passing, because last time i checked the majority did. And also in subjects like maths (which seems to be our running example) practice is what's important, and while you learn new things like algebra (quantum theory is actually more a-level physics) the practice gained in things you already know makes it further ingrained in your mind and therefore less likly to forget.
I got a D but I never say I passed my GCSE because people want O-Level equivalents of C and above. Anything less, really truly isnt worth having. I dont even bother putting it on my CV.
I didnt pass any languages either and I only got a D for science, even though I was in the top set. I might have done better if i wasnt in a class of people who didnt want to be there, and didnt take the piss out of anyone that actually wanted to learn
Well that's more to do with your learning environment than the subjects being compulsory or your work ethic. And perhaps could be solved by a change in teaching practices than by removing compulsory learning. I got a D in history and that's partly because I needed extra time and didn't get it, but also because I didn't work or revise.
What I meant by most people passing was people getting A* to C grades, not everyone manages that in every subject they take, but it's not impossible.
So percentages can't be taught before the age of 14? I thought that shit got taught in primary school lol. Knowing the pythagoras theroem (or whatever it's called) and the rest of it that gets taught later on is for the most part useless unless you're planning on doing a uni course which involves maths.
As for foreign languages...taking an a level/higher foreign language might give you a very basic knowledge of the language, but again unless you're planning on a related uni course and career, it's pretty pointless. There's hundreds of different languages/dialects you may well come across, learning one language for that eventuality seems a bit inadequate. We all speak the international language - english - anyway.
Precisely how ignorant are you? Taking a foreign language to a-level or advanced higher does not only give you a very basic knowledge of the language. You're in for a shock if you think when you leave school the only use for each subject you did is a career or degree in that same subject. Knowing a foreign language is a huge attraction for employers.I knew a girl who won an internship in one of the top 5 legal firms in the country, she beat 100 other applicants precisely because she could speak conversational french.
Good for her. I presume she CHOSE to study a foreign language to the highest level she could...that's the whole fucking point...forcing 14-16 year olds to study French or whatever isn't going to do anything for them when they're older, especially when they could be taking something else they've got a genuine interest for.
I took standard grade french involuntarily, passed it easily, learned fuck all. Waste of time for myself and everyone involved. Then again, c'est la vie
However the second school of thought is that most things that are covered in GCSE Maths have no real relevence in the real world. Take algebra for example, when has that been any use to anyone? This view I beleive can be countered, as activities like this would probably be good for improving a persons problem solving abilities and perhaps be able to make them think over things better.
So in conclusion, I do not think that GCSE maths should be scrapped. However some of it was stupidly easy. I was put on intermediate tierr for GCSE and got a B grade, the highest possible for intermediate tier. I remember I got 4 marks just for drawing a cube.... then again if I had been put on the higher paper (like most of my year) I maybe would not have got as high as a grade B.
I am actually torn, because I do think that kids need to learn a foreign language, especially, for as long as possible. But work-based training is probably better for a lot of the less academically-gifted children- crap at maths, but brilliant at woodwork seemed to be quite common at my school.
It's a tough one, academia isn't for everyone. But if kids aren't in academia for long enough then they can't function in society properly.
The problem is never at secondary level, it is at primary and pre-school level. Children of iliterate parents grow up to be illiterate, as they are so far behind when they start school that they can never catch up.
I think that depends on the quality of the teaching they receive.
Academic work at school or at home is of similar merit, it is still being "in academia" just as much as the OU is a proper university. The building is irrelevant.
academia is more refering to what they learn than where. But I personally think that if children ONLY learn at home they can miss out on learning important social-interaction skills.
I only did GCSE french, I did quite well, but I went to quebec this year, people just don't speak english in quebec. I struggled initially, i just didn't have enough to get by on. But the basis that I had, voluntarily or not, allowed me to begin to understand what others were saying, and learn through repetition, which neatly leads me to my second point.
In maths one of the most important things following understanding is repetition. The extra two years, regardless of what you learn and when, allows for repetition. Which turns basic knowledge into basic competance in application.
My wage following university (in which I am doing no languages) will have £5000 added to it, because I learnt enough french at GCSE to spend three months in Quebec advancing it. I'm sorry mate but two years doing something I'm not so keen on to start 5 grand higher than others, not to mention how quickly I may accelerate my periodic wage increases, I'll take the extra education thanks.
yes its true people hardly ever specifically use the advanced mathematical methods they learn in school, but thats not the point, its the thinking behind it
face it, you drop maths, your mental capabilities start dropping in that area