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UK police can use information gained by torture.

Yes, as the government rolls forward its excellent plans to rid us of the 'Terror Threat' we can now legally use information gained by other countries even if that information is gained by torture.

Why dont we just give up this pretense and just kill all Muslims, thats the only realistic answer.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lukesh; We do not allow torture here, right. Now I'm really hoping that you agree with that measure.

    Why is it ok for us to condone other countries doing it when we believe it to be unethical?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :rolleyes:

    How ludicrous and laughable our "quest" to bring democracy and freedom to those poor Middle Eastern countries is becoming.

    In the least 2 and a half years many of the so called free democracies in this world have regressed many decades and places in the freedom and democracy league.

    Not far from now we might all want to consider moving somewhere where freedom, human rights and democracy are still in existence... because it is certainly dying out here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And where would that be Aladdin? I cant think of anywhere thats not been affected by this stupid War on Terror.

    And now their bombing Najaf as well, thats not going to insult anyone, honest! Its like air carpet bombing the Vatican for fucks sake!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    And where would that be Aladdin? I cant think of anywhere thats not been affected by this stupid War on Terror.

    And now their bombing Najaf as well, thats not going to insult anyone, honest! Its like air carpet bombing the Vatican for fucks sake!

    Lets face it mate, the US military have never been the most intelligent bunch have they. They really fit the oxymoron 'military intelligence' don' they?

    Ethics aside. Give sufficient inducement anyone will admit to doing anything. It's simply not a reliable method of extracting information. You just have to find the right pressure points and lean on them. You might not break under your own torture, but what if from there, to extract the "correct" information, they tortured your loved ones, with you watching, all the time they say 'it'll stop if you admit it'. How long could you really hold out under that?

    Only real wankers have to use that sort of method. Too lazy and stupid to find some actual evidence. Incidentally, the source of evidence means 'that which is seen', will we watch the tapes of the torture in court?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    okokok

    Good point, I hadnt thought of that!


    Fiend; Anything seems to be ok in the name of Terror now, we've got internment here, torture abroad, how long is it till we have torture here too.

    Or, if we cant get round our laws why not just fly all our prisoners to Iraq torture them there then use the evidence against them in the UK.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    Good point, I hadnt thought of that!


    Fiend; Anything seems to be ok in the name of Terror now, we've got internment here, torture abroad, how long is it till we have torture here too.

    Or, if we cant get round our laws why not just fly all our prisoners to Iraq torture them there then use the evidence against them in the UK.

    Not in MY name.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wont be long, the Fear is closing in. Its interesting to compare what was done to stave off those Commie bastards and whats being done to fight terror.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    Wont be long, the Fear is closing in. Its interesting to compare what was done to stave off those Commie bastards and whats being done to fight terror.


    I hope that in the UK and Europe people are intelligent enough to know when enough is enough. I won't let it happen quietly.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You've got a lot more hope than I have. Its a sad fact, but many voters think like Lukesh.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    You've got a lot more hope than I have. Its a sad fact, but many voters think like Lukesh.

    And many voters think like you and me. Don't forget that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I try not to, but its just so bloody depressing, the stream of news gets worse everyday.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    Most voters think how they're told to think.

    So lets tell them to think how we do?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    Incidentally, I got my rather fabulous 'Preparing for Emergencies' booklet through the post this morning :D

    I know, it's terrible isn't it, have you read the threads on them?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Balls, I havent got mine yet!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    Balls, I havent got mine yet!

    It's really quite amusing. Or it would be if it wasn't such a blatantly cynical attempt to scare people.
    terrorist bomb attacks mostly happen in public places, especially where people gather

    Damn, does that mean that Al Qaeda won't be blowing up Carrock Fell in winter at night then?

    :lol:

    They might as well just add "lynch all paki bastards and mick cunts" at the end of it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    (Edit: irrelevant)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: UK police can use information gained by torture.
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    Yes, as the government rolls forward its excellent plans to rid us of the 'Terror Threat' we can now legally use information gained by other countries even if that information is gained by torture.

    Why dont we just give up this pretense and just kill all Muslims, thats the only realistic answer.

    That new plan has nothing to do with being anti-muslim or killing muslims.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    :rolleyes:


    In the least 2 and a half years many of the so called free democracies in this world have regressed many decades and places in the freedom and democracy league.

    Not far from now we might all want to consider moving somewhere where freedom, human rights and democracy are still in existence... because it is certainly dying out here.

    Where else is there more freedom?

    Why do you always have to be such an apologist for crappily run muslim states and always criticise our own?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by groovechampion
    Where else is there more freedom?

    Why do you always have to be such an apologist for crappily run muslim states and always criticise our own?

    What? Where was he an apologist for Muslim states?

    I think he and I have many valid concerns about the decreasing freedoms which we have.

    As for countries who have more freedom, well I'm fairly sure Sweden, New Zealand, and well, most of the EU doesnt have internment. And they dont have the horrendous 'Profits of Crime Act' or the oh so lovely 'Patriot Act'.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by groovechampion
    Why do you always have to be such an apologist for crappily run muslim states and always criticise our own?

    Hmm, I'm not sure that is fair. Certainly people on these boards are more critical of our own Govts than they are of some of the arab states (NB In the main they are not Muslim states) but they are critical of the practices in the arab world too.

    However, when your Govt claims to be acting in "Freedom"'s cause then I'm sure you would agree that we should expect freedom to be delievered here and that high standards should apply.

    Much of the legislation passed since 11/9 relating to the "terrorist threat" denies our freedoms. The other point is that the "threat" is being exagerrated at every opportunity because politicians know that public fear will allow them to get away with a lot more...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am far more critical of UK government policy because, well I have a vested interest in it being fair.

    Yes its nasty if the DRC mistreats its people, but I am not personally effected.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    Why is it ok for us to condone other countries doing it when we believe it to be unethical?

    I'm not entirely sure that the government is actually 'condoning' the torture but it does place one's conscience in a very difficult position.

    For instance, if one was aware that a dirty bomb was due to be detonated in central London but that this information had been extracted from an individual in some hellpit in darkest Pakistan, would one choose to ignore it based on how the information was gleaned - and obviously see and live with the result of many thousands of Londoners dead or seriously wounded that one may have saved - or would one have to say "I detest the manner in which this information was acheived BUT the information is out there now anyhow - and I must use it to save many more lives"?

    Would the bulk of the country support the individual's moral stance on this and accept the needless casualty - or would most, as I suspect, insist that the information was used regardless?

    It's not an easy subject.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What has been said on my behalf by others groovechampion.

    Get a grip.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan; I can see your point, but, well information gained under torture is notorious for being unreliable, so although one gem might come out, how can you tell?

    And, torture is only going to increase the level of terrorism threat, so what do we do, crank up the torture to get the information to stave off an attack?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The real complication of the matter is the reliability of information gleaned under torture. Apply enough pain and your subject will tell you whatever you wish to hear rather than what is necessarily the truth of the matter.

    Given that potential informants would already be equally aware of the ethos of paranoia driving US/UK intelligence efforts and the resultant fear that Washington itself will perpetrate upon the country without any act of terrorism being required, its equally likely (if not more so) that the supposed "information" received is bogus.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Damn bb, beat me by one minute! lol.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh well, I agree with you and you agree with me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    Teagan; I can see your point, but, well information gained under torture is notorious for being unreliable, so although one gem might come out, how can you tell?

    And, torture is only going to increase the level of terrorism threat, so what do we do, crank up the torture to get the information to stave off an attack?

    You're quite correct. It's all very Catch 22 ...

    Torture is abhorrent but there would be very few 'thank you's" if that information was found to be correct ....

    What a mess we've made for ourselves!
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