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ladymuck, you might want to take a look at LSE.
Probably the most succesful university in England along with OxBridge (and among the best in the world) - and if you look at statistics around half of the students there come from outside Britain.
Surely that must say something.
Not that I am disagreeing with you though, I am someone who thinks we could and should take in more people.
Most Chinese people probably have not heard of Sheffield or birmingham, or Durham but they will certainly have heard of London........
Ladymuck: Immigrants are bad
Tal: How would you then explain the success of the LSE who has about 50% of it's students being from outside Britain?
Oxford and Cambridge are not in London either
Either way, you're right to some extent. But it is a school with an international reputation for it's field.
That goes for schools, housing, social services... Maybe it should be taken as read
As for those LSE students, they aren't necessarily immigrants just overseas students. Red Herring
Well why are you then? Can't you talk about something else?
Oh, and the fact that quite a bit of the 'flood of immigrants' are working in the NHS.
I don't believe a word of it
MRSA infections, same old long queues
Rubbish. You're the one who brings immigration into every thread. Anyone would think you're plugging a certain agenda...
I've unfortuntately had to have a load of tests and see a few consultants at Guy's recently and the waiting times for referrals are good (no more than 3 months for initial and about one month for subsequent referalls), I've been seen within 30 minutes of my appointment time, they're being very thorough in their investigations etc.
They're pretty good ime.
Its all very well bitching about all these immigrants flooding the system, but with no evidence what so ever to back it up you....
Oh, I cant be arsed, whats the point?
Yes, your right LadyMuck, I cant see how I was so wrong, I really dont want to get involved in ANOTHER fucking stupid deathly dull arguement over immigration.
Perhaps the mods should consider make a sticky thread called 'immigration' where those so worried by the "waves of bogus asylum seekers" and "illegal immigrants flooding our country" can air their concerns. That way we can at least get rid of the other 5 or 6 threads on the subject.
Please explain this. Do you think that the infection rate has increased, or the detection rate?
Same as when?
In 1997 you would wait days to see a GP, 18 months+ to see a Surgeon and then another 18 moths+ for the actual operation. You had no choice but to sit and wait.
If you need treatment in A&E, it wasn't unusual to have to wait more than 10 hours.
In 2004 you are guaranteed an appointment with you GP within 48 hours (or a nurse with 24 hours), you will wait a maximum 17 weeks to see a surgeon, and nine months for an operation. With effect from Aptil 2004 if you were waiting more than six months for an operation then you can choose to go eleswhere for treatment. In March 2005 the maximum wait will be six months for an operation.
In A&E over 90% of people are treated, admitted, or discharged withing four hours.
So please ladymuck, what "same old long queues" are you talking about?
But then I guess if I phone up and insist its really important I get seen straight away. But thats not quite the point is it. How am I supposed to really know if its really important, I'm not the doctor.
The NHS is undergoing the biggest reform ever attempted by an organisation of it's size in the world.
The US, Australian, French (plus others) are watching what we do, and learning from us. I personally have show the French Healthcare System a better way to treat patients for eye surgery.
Yes, patients come over here for treatment. Funnily enough we have a system where we bill national governments for treating their citizens. Incidentally, it's why you need E111 when you travel. Invoices are sent to Embassies for settlement.
Now, I don't dispute that many of these other systems have better equipment and nicer buildings. But I can guarantee that they don't have beeter healthcare.
Which, ultimately, is what we are there for.
Maybe both have increased. certainly a topic now, didn't used to be
NuLab wish-list. We shall see
GUM clinics are in a bad way in Enfield/Haringey as my friend discovered
If there are tangible improvements it doesn't negate the need to address health-tourism, entitlement generally. Anything can improve if money is thrown at it or should I say be presented as showing mprovement
Are you asking to see a specific doctor, or just anyone at your practice? That makes a difference, because clearly your GP will want some time off
If you are saying that you cannot get to see a GP within 24 hours, then you should contact your local PCT and complain. It's a national standard.
And what about all the immigrants who work in these areas thus boosting the capacity of these orgamnisations, at a guess I would say immigrants more than sort themselves out with regards to the Nhs, thus helping people like YOU......
And I always have to wait at least a week to see him, sometimes up to 2 weeks. Maybe he just doesnt like me.
It never used to be a topic because it never used to exist. It is a mutation.
That we find more cases is actually a reflection of the fact that we look for it now, whereas we never did five years ago. Comparisons with then and now are irrelevant.
Then open your fucking eyes because that is what is actually hapenning. The only part of my comments which were for the future was the waiting times for March 2005.
Possibly they are. But then I can't remember mentioning them...
This might be because we are looking at other areas. Some people are never satisfied, do you want every aspect of the Health Service to be sorted immediately then?
Your perception on health tourism you mean. Do you have any evidence to support your view points?
You can fuck right off, I take that as a personal insult.
You are questioning my integrity with absolutely no back up. You are talking about the work that I do, the results I acheive and you are apparently suggesting that I "massage" these for spin.
I don't work for any political party, I work for the patients and I make a real difference to them and to their care.
Now if that doesn't fit your vision of the world, or your political agenda then I am sorry. It's still the truth.
Whats that got to do with immigration? You blaming MRSA on foreigners? LOL! I think most people would blame it on over prescription of anti-biotics.
I got seen the same day at the GUM clinic last year. Yes, I had to wait 4 hours to be seen, but I didn't have to make an appointment. Had to wait 2 weeks for results though, which was a bit tense...
Really? Got any evidence for "health tourism"? (apart from your made up stories). In your world, things may be getting better, but we still need to sort out those dirty foreigners eh? :rolleyes:
Let's go back to this statement again, shall we?
Rather than concentrate on health tourism, perhaps we could talk about people lving in this country taking a little more responsibility for their own health. Actions such as eating a better diet, exercising, not smoking (yes I am a hypocrite here) and using contraception would mean that we needed less investment in our health service.
Too many people see it as a fall back position, meaning that they can take whatever risks they like, because the NHS will be there for them. Of course, when they use it, some people complain about it.
Well, stop wasting resources and there will be an even better service.
But we don't. We'd rather sit back in our confortable chairs, tapping away at our keyboards complaining about those people who don't necessarily have these choices, or access to a healthcare system like ours.
You complain about how bad our services is, and then complain about people travelling here for their treatment. Don't you see the contradiction there?
If our service is so bad, why would they come?
Ad now for a couple of assumptions...
1. That your "friend" was treated - and is now better.
2. That, given your dislike for immigrants, she is a good white english girl. With an STD. Now, can we get back to how "dirty" those immigrants are...?
I've heard that the French healthcare system is amoung the best in the world, but then they live longer and are healthier than everyone except the Japanese. So they need it less.
Obesity, drinking and smoking cost the NHS many billions, a reduction in them would mean far more money to spend on non-preventable illness.
A whale of an assumption
Plus an implied moral judgement about those who acquire STD's (not practised in GUM clinics, I note)
Any moral judgement forthcoming about those 71% of hetero HIV cases of African origin putting just a teensy bit of strain on the NHS?
Let's blame the Africans!
:rolleyes:
Are the 60,000 news cases on AIDS each year exclusively in Africans? No? Well shut teh fuck up then.
Unless you think that different races shouldn't sleep with each other. Which scarily I think you might do.
All mankind is quite probably of African origin as well.
Not a figment of my or the Ministers imagination I would assume:rolleyes:
Kermit
Who said they were, foulmouth?
bongbudda
Like, hey Man!