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A list of names is in itself a verfiable basis for further personal study in relation to key terms I have already repeatedly indicated, "Haganah", "Irgun", and "Stern Gang". But if needs be I will gladly provide additional reference material if the thread so warrants (since it seems to be increasingly apparent you would rather dismiss and retain your ideological comfort zone than read and consider the numerous other links provided).
Hypocrisy.
Either way, I am not in doubt that what is written has happened. I just don't believe that it came as much out of the blue, as those links tries to make it appear (context is a very important thing), and that we're as bad as you want and hope we are.
Actually you of all people should know how vital and important background and context is when presenting such kind of biography. Unless what you deal with is mere manipulations and through propaganda.
No jacq, this is not about you or any average Israeli Joe citizen as you constantly wish to make my comments out to be. This is about a prevailing political dogma that has governed both the establishment and continuance of a truly racist state model itself and one that is wholly alien to the region (i.e. the transposition of turko-slavic culture into a previously Arab cultural milieu (regardless of religion).
Until that colonialist-era doctrine is abandoned and Israel opened up to embrace all the indigenous people of the land equally and not with preference to one set over another (as any modern self-proclaimed democratic state should do), the revision and lies of Zionism will continue to evade historic accountability for its wrongdoings and no true peace will occur.
What is astounding is just how great an effort Israel and its zionist leaders insist on expending in creating and reiterating a false historic record and constant excusatory PR for their attrocities rather than acknowledging the truth, atoning and embracing their neighbours as equals in a single constructive and dynamically creative state.
The latter option would be so much more cleansing spiritually and mentally than the continued conflict and exclusivism which is reinforced daily by the maintenance of Zionist thinking.
Sorry if you cannot see the true concern for all (Israeli and Palestinian) that is contained in the issue I raise with the ongoing status quo.
I know you're from Belgium so I do understand if you have the same mentality that the EU has in feeling it impose it's agenda on anyone it likes but I fail to see why you are so obsessed with Israeli domestic law. Why should a non-Israeli who marries an Israeli get automatic citizenship? I don't know of any country that automatically grants citizenship to the husband/wife of a citizen.
When the Arabs are chopping people's hands off with kangaroo courts I consider Israeli marriage law a pretty minor issue.
Considering that Israel is not the only country to have such marriage laws yet it is Israel you single out and I will ask as I have asked before is it coincidence that the one country that gets singled out time after time also happens to be the only Jewish state?
It seems that one of the reasons for your disliking of Israel is that it is a Jewish state. Would I be right in saying that you would like to see Israel become a secular state like say France?
To which I say, there are 23 Arab/Iranian regimes in the Middle East. There is one Jewish state. When the Arabs offer complete religious freedom, I'll agree with you in saying that so should Israel.
Here's just one example of the kind of religious freedom you'll see in Arab states:
A mosque in Rome? Sure. A non-Muslim in Mecca? No.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110003943
There are NO Christian churches in Saudi Arabia...Israel has dozens; if you're in the area and fancy exercising religious freedom here's a list of churches:
http://www.d.co.il/?arena=Business&headingCode=21240&headingName=CHURCHES%20%26%20CONVENTS&language=EN&page=Business-Results&previousPage=Headings
Did you know that the only free Arab press in the Middle East is published in Israel? Kind of ironic isn't it? There's the Jerusalem Times, Al-Quds, Palestine Report and others.
The Arabs have 99.9% of the Middle East. Palestinians could be resettled tomorrow if the oil rich Arab states wanted to resettle them. But, they would never do that; they would rather use them as a political tool against Israel.
Seeing as they fled Israel as they were told to do so by the Arabs (who wrongly assumed they would defeat Israel) it is the Arabs responsibility to resettle them.
How you can justify advocating that they should go live elsewhere when they have every right to return to their own property is sickening. I truly would love to see your reaction if your home was confiscated and your family forced out into a refugee camp and told it was your own fault and that your people never owned the land in the first place regardless of any legally binding deed of ownership you might possess and that you were a terrorist if you dared fight back (as I'm sure you would).
Yours is the very sort of denial mentality that I find equally repulsive in those who claim the holocaust never happened.
You know what just struck me?
Time and time again you blame the "Zionists" to pull the "Holocaust-card"... Yet, you constantly do so yourself.
Seems you will twist any comment to mean something it does not so long as you can avoid coming to terms with the historic record of Zionist attrocities.
The point is, revisionism is revisionism and equally repugnant whether being employed to deny the record of evils perpetrated against the Jews or used by Israeli leaders to whitewash the historic record of their own brutalities and serve their ideological agenda.
Look in what context you used the reference to the Holocaust, somewhere where it wasn't too relevant.
While when looking at the creation of the state of Israel, it's a keypoint.
Cause digging that low, is really gonna make me keen on what you have to say.
The fact remains you demonstrate a lack of understanding for the application of "principle".
Once again, the "principle" of revisionism of the historic record is repugnant whether it is is practiced by those who deny the holocaust (as a documented historic and brutal event) or the longrunning effort of the Zionist camp to revise and whitewash its own documented historic brutalities toward Palestinians).
Are we getting closer to understanding the application of "principle"?
No lasting peace will ever be achieved so long as the lies continue to advance the continuation of an outdated colonialist-era politcal dogma.
Either way, there's no denying of anything. Merely disagreemeant on facts.
As for what you term "disagreement on facts", you demonstrate by your very posts as indeed being evasion and denial and refusal to scrutinise objectively. Hardly surprising though. Perhaps like a zebra a zionist simply "cannot change his stripes".
That is not your problem, nor concern.
But if you're really interested in that, then maybe you should show an example and follow your own words
At least you finally made it abundantly clear that there is no intellectual curiosity in you nor capacity to assess your hand me down ideology in light of historic reality.
Further discussion is therefore pointless.
Told you that a long time ago... But nice to see that you're catching up. Better late than never.
No of course it isn't worth discussing with me, when setting standards you don't uphold yourself.
I have more selfrespect than simply smiling and nodding.
Hmm, a bit of a rushed comment, huh?