If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options
Essential support for under 25s
Essential support for under 25s
Take a look around and enjoy reading the discussions. If you'd like to join in, it's really easy to register and then you'll be able to post. If you'd like to learn what this place is all about, head here.
Comments
Probably because it's been proved time after time, that it doesn't work,
Until you can come clean about the truth of the situation and where the burden of fault lies, kindly refrain from slagging me off for attempting to awaken you to the historic reality which even many non-zionist Jews have acknowledged.
Adhering to false history to suit your ideological comfort zone is the real hypocrisy. I am yet hoping you are intelligent enough to rise above ideology and come to terms with historic fact.
It also highlights the supreme hypocrisy and double standards of much of the West, happy to even wage wars in the name of stopping this type of thing happening while completely ignoring other offenders doing the same things... but then what's new in that respect? We've been doing it for centuries.
Both sides are guilty of atrocities tragically but I still feel it is Israel that should make the first move to achieve real peace- and ensure it is a serious and decent proposal- since it is them who hold all the cards.
Never thought about the fact that maybe it's you looking at the case from the wrong perspective? You have no problems telling me that I am deenying the truth and that you being the oracle that you are, have all the facts.
I am deealing with this thing every day. If you think I haven't heard, read or seen it all from the other side, then you're wrong.
I read the Guardian and Ha'aretz (left-leaning Hebrew newspaper) online on an almost daily basis. I've seen the claims, and the rhetorics.
Have been taught about the land first in biblical terms, the political since kindergarten. All by leftist teachers.
And have been in the area in times of havoc, and when it's supposedly more quiet. Talked to the Israeli right and left, and to the arabic israelis/palestinian.
Frankly, all of this hasn't had the wanted (by you and so many others I assume) effect. I still believe that Israel has a right to exist. And I still believe that killing civilians intentionally is an act that shouldn't be given in to.
You want a credible analysis?
Tell me since when links like the ones below, are viewed as credible?
From someone supposedly working with international analysis everyday, I'd expect something which isn't constructed in the matter of five minutes and which has some credible background to it. Frankly, I'd say I've used more time on my livejournal than the examples you've brought.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHil...mbo_chptr1.html
http://www.badil.org/Campaign/Exper...10-U-Halabi.htm
http://members.fortunecity.com/911/palestine/facts.htm
If you want me to provide you with some credible claims, then maybe you should start practicing what you preach - and maybe ackowledge that you're plainly supporting terrorists.
For now, I don't want to waste anymore time on someone who openly supports the message of people wanting to eliminate my people.
The Moral Maze
The facts contained in the links provided indeed shed light on the fact that the very problem in attempting debate on the nature of the conflict and its burden of blame with an avowed Zionist is that you filter everything through the indoctrinated revisionism which seeks to paint a picture of perpetual Israeli victimisation even when in fact Israel has ever been the dominant force in the region.
Moreover, your insistance on denying even so much as the existence of "Palestine" (through clever twisting of the Ottoman colonial period into something which somehow elimates any reference to the geographical area and its historic inhabitants pre-1948 as "Palestine" (which it does not)) or the prior legitimate ownership of the lands held by Palestinian families (note an entire roster of former villages and towns decimated and levelled in the original cleansing of the land by the original zionist militants, which dispels the myth of "A Land Without a People")...
http://members.fortunecity.com/911/palestine/destroyed-towns.htm
only demonstrates further that you begin any examination fully prepared to aknowledge only those aspects which suggest this whole affair somehow originated after Israel was a fully recognised state, thus eradicating from history all the preceding 20 odd years of brutal dispossession which enabled matters in 1948 to culiminate as they did.
If one is to be truly non-hypocritical, one must assess the myths that remain in force today and which guide even the more moderate policies of the Israeli Left as they do the more hardline Right. Neither camp yet aknowledges that zioinism is an ideology rooted in the colonial and racist mindset of the 19th century and has inculcated itself into the very nature of two tiered (non-democratic) society in Israel itself, where Arabs and other non-Jews are deemed second class citizens at best and Jewish Israelis are deemed racially distinct from all other peoples in the world.
This racification of Judaism (which is a religion not a race) is part and parcel of an entire ethos erected to make intellectually honest criticism a matter of supposed racial hatred when it is indeed not a racial issue but a political one.
You can continue to rant against me all you wish but it is clear that you operate on the basis of defending an increasingly defunct and anachronistic ideology rather than exercising genuine scrutiny of events which go back much farther than than 1948 or any wars fought thereafter. In its proper context, the advantage and body counts have always rested firmly in Israel's favour as has media coverage up to the present day.
It is little wonder that no settlement has yet been possible, because it runs counter to the perpetuation of the myth of the perpetual victim which actully empowers Israeli PR towards its most prolific military and economic supporters. To aknowledge the truth of history and seek to reconcile the past with Palestinians cooperatively and constructively would entail the relinquishing of the racially segregationistic zionist ideology that has guided successive Israeli governments and force Israeli society to open up to true pluralism.
I submit these further readings for those interested in properly contextualised analysis...
http://evatt.labor.net.au/publications/papers/30.html
http://www.jvjp.ch/engl/art1.htm (one for you Jacq)
http://www.aldeilis.net/jus/politics/ilfolder/beithallahmi.pdf
(a fair assessment which you should read as well).
The alternative to full reconciliation and recognition of injustice is merely more of this endless cycle of self-defeating violence for both sides. The ball is in Israel's court and ever has been.
I still think that executing him will fuel a fire in palestine inside the terrorist cells and groups. If Israel and Palestine want to end this conflict they need to put out the metaphorical fire, not add strength to it!
Once you comprehend where and how this historic conflict began and its complete roster of injustices you will be better able to put it into its rightful perspective and better able to assess up to date reports for the sort of decontextualisation which characterises mainstream reporting (especially for the questions which are no longer asked nor discussed).
and Palestine doesn't?
Did I say that?
My biggest wish is for them to get a land and shut up, and keep their bombs to themselves. Frankly, i don't believe that their waý to gain that land is through their current methods.
LadyJade, as said earlier I am (at least for now) retracting from discussion with Clandestine - it leads nowhere, and makes me wonder who teh biggest idiot of the two of us is.
So you don't have to complain after every second post I make.
I wouldn't complain if you would stop making it so personal!!!
I just don't see why you both can't disagree with an idea without being insulting. It is a shame you can't detach yourself a little and engage in the debate more, because i think this is a really important and informative debate. And I'm not being sarcastic.
I am sorry, but I can't take him seriously, when he spites out the shit he does. And as said, I am an idiot for using my time on him in the first place.
Another thing... I think it's interesting that so many are happy and fast to denounce the killings Israel does on terrorists, but the killings which the Palestinians commit on their own kids hasn't got a single comment.
Such dismissive avoidance of the issue however does more to undermine any potential you might hope to have in becoming a diplomat than you realise. Sooner or later youre going to have to put your precious ideology to the side and deal with basic facts, however disturbing, if you hope to have any clue whatsoever of the real hurdles to future progress.
Trying to defend reinvented history only aligns you with those fueling the problem rather than those seeking a progressive solution.
Should have re-phrased it. But you get my point.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3565607.stm