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Abortions

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, I think its great. :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    I honestly cannot possibly see how anyone could classify a foetus as a human being.

    I hope those who mantain that abortion should be illegal because the foetuses are babies and and thus creatures of god haven't done as much as have a wank in their whole lives. I mean, all those little god creatures ending up dying on a kleenex...

    I wonder if the anti-abortion people would be willing to look after all the children who have been put up for adoption and give them a loving and secure childhood.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    I honestly cannot possibly see how anyone could classify a foetus as a human being.

    I hope those who mantain that abortion should be illegal because the foetuses are babies and and thus creatures of god haven't done as much as have a wank in their whole lives. I mean, all those little god creatures ending up dying on a kleenex...

    That is the stupidist thing I've herd in ages. Your bodey disposes of sperm anyway, it is allways being produced but you may not put it to use so after its been there for a while it is disposed of to make way for newer sperm .
    ^Badly explained but you get the point.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No I don't get the point.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It makes more sense now, I'm trying to say that the "sperm dying on kleenex" argument doesint work as your bodey would only destroy it anyway.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It makes exactly as much sense as god-botherers demanding abortion is made illegal because they claim a tennis-sized lump of cells is a 'human being' and 'a baby' and getting rid of it constitutes 'murder'.

    Following the script to the letter I see. Keep up the good work! :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Makaveli UK
    It makes more sense now, I'm trying to say that the "sperm dying on kleenex" argument doesint work as your bodey would only destroy it anyway.

    Totally irrelevant though.

    Look - no is arguing in favour of abortion. What we are arguing for is a woman's right to choose.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    Totally irrelevant though.

    Look - no is arguing in favour of abortion. What we are arguing for is a woman's right to choose.

    Not to mention the life the child would have afterwards.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    I wonder if the anti-abortion people would be willing to look after all the children who have been put up for adoption and give them a loving and secure childhood.

    Some are, some churches are offering to contribute towards the upkeep of the child if the woman keeps it.

    Which you'd know if you did any research.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Im very pro choice and always have been. Im even more pro choice since I became a parent myself. I know how hard it is and how much attention and time children require and deserve. If a woman doesnt feel ready or feel able to give a child everything it needs, then termination is the right thing to do in my opinion.
    You just cant put the rights of a foetus over the rights of the woman, its a dangerous route to go down, and even people who wouldnt choose abortion for themselves should realise that it needs to be legal.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Two Pro-Life thoughts which I believe are quite serious.

    1. ( from a physician who happens to be an atheist) : When parents’ chromosomes are united all material features of the heir are established. A structure of her brain, her hormonal system, her motoric reflexes, her odd habit to get up at 3a.m., a colour of her eyes, a curliness of her hair, a group of her blood, her sexual orientation, her gestures, her ice-cream preferences, her strange love to lizards, her unique weird half-smile that makes a half of her boy schoolmates crazy- everything is. The world ‘IS’ doesn’t mean something like ‘maybe‘, ‘may be‘, ‘probably‘, ‘could‘, ‘would’ , ' no bad idea', ‘if ever-never‘, ‘outta‘, 'wanna', ‘gonna‘, ‘kinda-sorta‘. It means tough and definite IS.
    ( If you had have some device to read individual genetic codes you’d be able to make her photos- 1 y.o., 3 y.o., 7 y.o., 14 y.o., 18 y.o., 40 y.o. so on)
    The fact that this human being ( Yes, a human being! Not a drop of biological substance) hasn’t developed her abilities yet doesn’t make her a private property of her parents or somebody else ( including so called Society). Murder is murder and if you AGREE that a creature that has everything that makes a human to be a human- except 9 month she needs to develop these abilities- deserves to be killed, because she doesn’t think, doesn’t walk, doesn’t feel ( Are you SURE?!) and doesn’t pay taxes ( though I guess it would be enough from socialists’ point of view) you MUST agree that killing humans who are sleeping or in coma or under strong drugs is justified- they don’t think, don’t walk, don’t feel and don’t pay taxes ( bastards!).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LabRat
    Two Pro-Life thoughts which I believe are quite serious.

    1. ( from a physician who happens to be an atheist) : When parents’ chromosomes are united all material features of the heir are established. A structure of her brain, her hormonal system, her motoric reflexes, her odd habit to get up at 3a.m., a colour of her eyes, a curliness of her hair, a group of her blood, her sexual orientation, her gestures, her ice-cream preferences, her strange love to lizards, her unique weird half-smile that makes a half of her boy schoolmates crazy- everything is. The world ‘IS’ doesn’t mean something like ‘maybe‘, ‘may be‘, ‘probably‘, ‘could‘, ‘would’ , ' no bad idea', ‘if ever-never‘, ‘outta‘, 'wanna', ‘gonna‘, ‘kinda-sorta‘. It means tough and definite IS.
    ( If you had have some device to read individual genetic codes you’d be able to make her photos- 1 y.o., 3 y.o., 7 y.o., 14 y.o., 18 y.o., 40 y.o. so on)
    The fact that this human being ( Yes, a human being! Not a drop of biological substance) hasn’t developed her abilities yet doesn’t make her a private property of her parents or somebody else ( including so called Society). Murder is murder and if you AGREE that a creature that has everything that makes a human to be a human- except 9 month she needs to develop these abilities- deserves to be killed, because she doesn’t think, doesn’t walk, doesn’t feel ( Are you SURE?!) and doesn’t pay taxes ( though I guess it would be enough from socialists’ point of view) you MUST agree that killing humans who are sleeping or in coma or under strong drugs is justified- they don’t think, don’t walk, don’t feel and don’t pay taxes ( bastards!).
    Well just because a scientist said it it doesnt make it fact. I dont believe that a love of lizards or certain flavours of icecream or a lot of other aspects to personality are pre determined at the moment of conception. Some things will be determined sure, but that doesnt mean they have a right to life when they are basically still at a parasitic stage.
    When a child can survive outside of the body of its host, then it has a right to life in my opinion. Until then, then the mothers needs are more important. There are enough unwanted children in this world already without adding to it. Have you opened your home to them?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the child is in the womb, it is part of the mother. That is a FACT- it uses her blood, her food, her vitamins. It is HER.

    Therefore if she doesn't want it she is perfectly entitled to have the choice to not have it. It sounds cruel, but it is what it boils down to. The only time when the line gets blurred is when a child can naturally survive outside the womb, but isn't doing- and that is at about 24 weeks, when, conveniently, the abortion cut-off line is.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Forcing the woman to give up her right to her own body places her rights as a human being below that of a bundle of cells.... just my opinion.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    So lets assume a child has been poorly, they go to see the G.P and are diagnosed with cancer the parents are not told if thats what the child requests ?

    Yep, the parent has no right to that information. It is unusual for such a thing to happen – well unusual for neither parent to know. If there is a split in the parents relationship then often the parent without custody (a.k.a The Father ;) ) wouldn’t necessarily be informed.
    I understand breach of confidentiality and appreciate that doctors are not allowed to disclose information but thought that in some cases they can.

    They can do so at their own risk – e.g. if the patient is comatose – however, if the patient finds out and object, then they can sue.
    Also assuming a minor goes into hospital and has to have an anastetic and the parents are not aware, who gives consent on the form you sign ?

    No such thing as a “minor” when it comes to consent.

    The only defining factor is if the doctors thinks that the patient can understand the risks of the procedure. It is theoretically possible for a five year old to consent to an operation. Unlikely, but possible.

    A doctor will always prefer a parent/guardian to sign, but its not unusual for teenagers to consent.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LabRat
    Two Pro-Life thoughts which I believe are quite serious.

    1. ( from a physician who happens to be an atheist) : When parents’ chromosomes are united all material features of the heir are established. A structure of her brain, her hormonal system, her motoric reflexes, her odd habit to get up at 3a.m., a colour of her eyes, a curliness of her hair, a group of her blood, her sexual orientation, her gestures, her ice-cream preferences, her strange love to lizards, her unique weird half-smile that makes a half of her boy schoolmates crazy- everything is. The world ‘IS’ doesn’t mean something like ‘maybe‘, ‘may be‘, ‘probably‘, ‘could‘, ‘would’ , ' no bad idea', ‘if ever-never‘, ‘outta‘, 'wanna', ‘gonna‘, ‘kinda-sorta‘. It means tough and definite IS.
    ( If you had have some device to read individual genetic codes you’d be able to make her photos- 1 y.o., 3 y.o., 7 y.o., 14 y.o., 18 y.o., 40 y.o. so on)
    The fact that this human being ( Yes, a human being! Not a drop of biological substance) hasn’t developed her abilities yet doesn’t make her a private property of her parents or somebody else ( including so called Society). Murder is murder and if you AGREE that a creature that has everything that makes a human to be a human- except 9 month she needs to develop these abilities- deserves to be killed, because she doesn’t think, doesn’t walk, doesn’t feel ( Are you SURE?!) and doesn’t pay taxes ( though I guess it would be enough from socialists’ point of view) you MUST agree that killing humans who are sleeping or in coma or under strong drugs is justified- they don’t think, don’t walk, don’t feel and don’t pay taxes ( bastards!).

    Hmmmmm...biological determinism. Shaky ground really.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *takes a deep breath*

    yes, abortion is a horrible thing. i'm sure no woman WANTS to have one, but sometimes it's for the best.

    when you have a baby, you are creating a human being who you are then responsible for for at least the next 18 years. it's not like getting a dog, when you can sell it, or give it to the RSPCA if you can't afford it or get bored of it.

    and understandably, sometimes people are not ready for that.

    maybe they're too young, maybe they don't have an income, or a home, or a stable relationship. whatever their reason, they're entitled to that choice.

    when i was a teenager, i had trouble looking after my hamster, so there's no way in the world i would have coped with a little person who was entirely dependent on me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What would YOU prefer- to be unwanted or to be killed?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LabRat
    What would YOU prefer- to be unwanted or to be killed?

    How is that relevant? :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I believe in the right to choose and I would rather my parents terminated me than not want me!

    I think its a shame a child of 13 or 15 is having sex.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think it's a shame 15 year olds have sex.

    We have to understand that as time passes and we evolve we will have to lower the age of concern. This does not apply to everybody but in most cases a 15 year old is fully ready and prepared both physically and mentally to have sex. We cannot suppress nature with prudish moral stances.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by LabRat
    What would YOU prefer- to be unwanted or to be killed?

    If you made abortion illegal it would mean a rise in back street abortions which would cause further physical and psychological damage to the woman. Just a point to make.

    As for the idea of being 'unwanted' or 'killed', if a baby has no consciousness then is it truelly a death? After all as has been said before it ius part of the mother,

    Another point that has to be made is that the human race is too big for the planet anyway and if everybody keeps on popping sprogs it'll use up not only money resources, but also the resources of the earth. The planet cannot sustain us forever if we keep on using and using it up and repopulating (and for the record I don't plan to have children, or at least more than one child).

    As for the biological arguement, there is no concrete evidence I have seen to back it up. Got any links?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    If you made abortion illegal it would mean a rise in back street abortions which would cause further physical and psychological damage to the woman. Just a point to make

    I agree. It's something that our generation doesn't really think about, because (well in my case anyway) I've grown up in a time where abortion has quite rightly remained a safe and legal procedure in the UK.

    In one of my lectures, we were shown a picture of a woman's abdomen covered in gangrene, after a botched illegal abortion. Very unpleasant and humbling experience. And sadly, there are places in the world where the use of knitting needles, bleach douches, blows to the stomach and who knows what else, still happen.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    I don't think it's a shame 15 year olds have sex.

    We have to understand that as time passes and we evolve we will have to lower the age of concern. This does not apply to everybody but in most cases a 15 year old is fully ready and prepared both physically and mentally to have sex. We cannot suppress nature with prudish moral stances.

    To clarify - I think it's a shame that some kids are having sex at 15 and not using contraception, instead having to resort to abortions when things 'go wrong' ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh okay. Sorry, I misread you then.

    Yes, abortions should not be seen as a form of contraception. Much more emphasis should be given to the use of contraception, not only to avoid unwanted pregancies but to stop the spread of STDs which sadly are ever growing nowadays.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Abortion

    I am 20 years old and i have two children, 20 months and 9 months. When i found out i was pregnant again just this March even though i was on the injection i felt that there was no way i could cope with three children under 3.
    It would not have been fair on the baby for a start, it would not have had the life it deserved, not the attention it deserved. It would have been tough on me, my partner and my two children to survive as we are not working.
    I had an abortion on the 2nd April
    I dont regret it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    I don't think it's a shame 15 year olds have sex.

    We have to understand that as time passes and we evolve we will have to lower the age of concern. This does not apply to everybody but in most cases a 15 year old is fully ready and prepared both physically and mentally to have sex. We cannot suppress nature with prudish moral stances.

    hmm its mainly females (need to find a sourve for that info) that are having sex at younger ages, and sadly i dont complain if they are in a caring relationship and of similar ages but getting drunk and sleeping around with older guys like 18/19+ (like they tend to do here where i live), even if ur bord and theres nothing else to do it doesnt excuse it,
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
    hmm its mainly females (need to find a sourve for that info) that are having sex at younger ages, and sadly i dont complain if they are in a caring relationship and of similar ages but getting drunk and sleeping around with older guys like 18/19+ (like they tend to do here where i live), even if ur bord and theres nothing else to do it doesnt excuse it,

    I think you are wrong. it's entirely up to a woman what she decides to do as far as havigng sex goes and legally as long as she's over 16 she has the right to chooses who with and when she has sex. The 18+ men who are sleeping with girls under 16 need to take responsibility.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We need more soldiers for Blair's Reich.
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