Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options

If you know your stuff about Religion please read

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Right does the bible condone Gays or not? Ive heard it doesnt and was told the bible doesnt condone it but ive also heard it doesnt condone the rape but actually being gay is fine. Does anyone have any quotes or know anything about this? Any help would be appreciated.
«13

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: If you know your stuff about Religion please read
    Originally posted by VinylVicky
    Right does the bible condone Gays or not? Ive heard it doesnt and was told the bible doesnt condone it but ive also heard it doesnt condone the rape but actually being gay is fine. Does anyone have any quotes or know anything about this? Any help would be appreciated.
    the old and new testaments both condemn men lying with men and the new testament condemns women doing the same with each other. if i can i'll dig out some passages for you.
    i've never been able to understand why gay people want to be a part of something that condems them ...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: If you know your stuff about Religion please read
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    the old and new testaments both condemn men lying with men and the new testament condemns women doing the same with each other. if i can i'll dig out some passages for you.
    i've never been able to understand why gay people want to be a part of something that condems them ...
    Thanks Rolly.
    That's bad new for me. Ive said that I believe the bit that I heard about them shunning rape but not actual gays.
    Please someone tell me im right!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Re: If you know your stuff about Religion please read
    Originally posted by VinylVicky
    Thanks Rolly.
    That's bad new for me. Ive said that I believe the bit that I heard about them shunning rape but not actual gays.
    Please someone tell me im right!
    Um... tricky one.

    Most of it's down to translation, annoyingly enough.

    The Bible speaks about gays in Leviticus, and my version, the Good News Version, simply says "God hates that", which, when you think of an all-loving being, really doesn't add up.
    However, the King James Version says "that is detestable" which I personally translate as "some people might not like it"

    I'm of the belief that homosexuality is not something you develop, but something you're born with. The Bible is forever preaching about tollerance of others, and nowhere does it say that you should think less of people because they have a disability, or dark skin for example, so I don't see why being gay would be a problem.

    Gays in Christianity is an incredibly sensitive area, just look at all the Hell that's been raised iwith Canon John, or more recently in America.

    I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus. I believe He came down and died for my sins, so that if I believe in him I can go to Heaven when I die, and not die, but live an eternal life. That makes me a Christian. If you believe that, then you're a Christian too, it's all written in John 3:16-18. I find it so upsetting when two Christians can't agree on one simple thing: that's the qualification you need, nothing else really matters. Be good and believe, you'll get there!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Re: Re: If you know your stuff about Religion please read
    Originally posted by Skateside
    However, the King James Version says "that is detestable" which I personally translate as "some people might not like it"

    i think you want to look that up in a dictionary :p


    if i remember rightly from my rampantly catholic RE teacher, being actively gay is a sin.

    i'm pretty sure lusting after your own sex is a sin too, but not positive.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sodomites shall burn in Hell.

    Or something like that.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, lust in any form is a sin. *looks for Bible* Hold on, I'll look up a reference...
    I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew 5:28
    So lust is just as bad as sex in its way. That goes for heterosexuals, too.

    People disagree about how far the Bible condemns gays. As Skateside says, it's very much about translation. I explained in the gay marriage thread that the Greek word used in the NT that is usually translated as homosexual may have meant prostitute or some other things that I have forgotten...

    The thing about the Bible condemning rape not homosexuality probably comes from some people's interpretations of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Genesis 19) Many people would argue that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of the inhospitality of the citizens, and that rape was the cause; it would have happened had the rape been homosexual or heterosexual.

    Finally
    Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Leviticus 18:22
    However, the argument against this is that it comes in a set of purity laws that Jesus rejected (Mark 7:18-23). People argue that since Jesus came to cleanse us of our sin the old purity laws no longer apply (hence Christians do not eat Kosher meat).

    Hope that's vaguely sensible!
    Picc.
    xxx

    P.S. All references are NIV, if anyone's interested...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kiezo
    Sodomites shall burn in Hell.

    Yep. Just shows up religion for what it is, really.

    Shame someone missed out the "thou shalt not fiddle with thou choirboys"

    I used to know this group of Young Christians (biggest load of wankers you'll meet) and the hypocrisy was unreal. I think they're all neds now :p
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But i have the youth bible And it says that jesus was meant that there was no longer any food that was unclean for people to eat.

    And if you read on it will say that "its the things that come out of people that make them unclean. all these evil things begin inside, in the heart, evil thought sexual sins, stealing....

    So yea it does not say anywhere in the bilbe where it condones gays. sorry.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Bri-namite

    I used to know this group of Young Christians (biggest load of wankers you'll meet) and the hypocrisy was unreal.

    Which is why i hate the church, i dnt hate god anymore, i dnt hate religion, i am still a christian kinda...but i just dont practise it in the same way as others.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Zella
    And if you read on it will say that "its the things that come out of people that make them unclean. all these evil things begin inside, in the heart, evil thought sexual sins, stealing....
    I thought someone might pick up on that. Although Jesus himself never condemned homsexuality (if he did, the gospel-writers did not record it).
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They didnt record a lot of things, apparntly loads more scriptures have been found yet they havent published them because they contradict(sp) whats already been published.

    edited to add stuff
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Zella
    They didnt record a lot of things

    Shoulda got Sky Plus then, eh?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Before you read this reply, please note that the link to Westboro Baptist Church may offend some people. Ta! :)
    Originally posted by Zella
    They didnt record a lot of things, apparntly loads more scriptures have been found yet they havent published them because they contradict(sp) whats already been published.
    I heard that. It just confirms how complex the whole thing is. The important thing, Vicky, is that most Christians (except The Westboro Baptist Church) accept that God loves everyone unconditionally. We are all sinners no more or less than each other and if homosexuality is a sin it will be forgiven.

    As Skateside said, the only qualification to be a Christian is to love God. And who says gay people can't do that? (Other than Fred Phelps :rolleyes: )
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by piccolo
    Before you read this reply, please note that the link to Westboro Baptist Church may offend some people. Ta! :)


    I heard that. It just confirms how complex the whole thing is. The important thing, Vicky, is that most Christians (except The Westboro Baptist Church) accept that God loves everyone unconditionally. We are all sinners no more or less than each other and if homosexuality is a sin it will be forgiven.

    As Skateside said, the only qualification to be a Christian is to love God. And who says gay people can't do that? (Other than Fred Phelps :rolleyes: )
    NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS!
    the bible says that those who repent of their sins, in other words stop practising those sins and come clean ...will be saved. theres a born again christian attitude that preaches ...all you have to do is to beklieve in de lord man and you will be saved! but to believe is to change worldly thinking and follow the teachings of christ and his apostles. you can't carry on being a thief and or murderer and expect to be forgiven. you would expect to be forgiven had you changed your ways though. to believe is surely to practice what you have learned ...what has made you a changed man/woman.
    found one vicky ...1st corinthianschptr 6 verse 9.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What about "The righteous will live by faith," Romans 1:17. Faith in the Lord grants you eternal life. The rest is, as my youth worker puts it, a bonus. e.g. You stop stealing / raping / lying / swearing because you love God and want to obey his commands. Obediance is a symptom of the love, but not a requirement for salvation.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by piccolo
    What about "The righteous will live by faith," Romans 1:17. Faith in the Lord grants you eternal life. The rest is, as my youth worker puts it, a bonus. e.g. You stop stealing / raping / lying / swearing because you love God and want to obey his commands. Obediance is a symptom of the love, but not a requirement for salvation.
    by that reasoning ...even the devil himself will be saved and all his demons as well ...becuase they obviously believe in god and jesus as they would have seen them?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Belief is one thing, faith is another
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Zella
    Belief is one thing, faith is another

    SPOT ON ZELLA
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Zella
    They didnt record a lot of things, apparntly loads more scriptures have been found yet they havent published them because they contradict(sp) whats already been published.

    edited to add stuff
    I may be wrong but I think this was Catholic and the scriptures stated you dont need a church to worship, a place to go. You can do this in your own home, thus not needing a church. The Catholic church has denied these as real, as if the accepted them they would have to give up the church.


    Also, is there any one here who is a Johovas (sp?) Witness and their view on my question of gay people? Do they have the same quote as somebody mentioned about not being able to lust after a woman?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so surely the difference between believing and having faith is ...
    faith in the promises of life IF ...you adhere to the teachings?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, it's about putting your trust in the Lord. Having faith that He will help and guide you.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by VinylVicky
    Also, is there any one here who is a Johovas (sp?) Witness and their view on my question of gay people? Do they have the same quote as somebody mentioned about not being able to lust after a woman?
    That's in the Bible, so all Christians "have" it.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    surely the whole point of a religous belief is to change your life from materialism and lust to something higher? as the bible says ...to seperate yourself from this world. not as in becoming a recluse but as in following the teachings of your chosen leader and not the teachings of mere mortals. surely that teaching ...if you believe and have faith ...in the fact that it came from god or whatever ...will be true for all time. the bible stated that the earth was round when the greek teaching of the day was that it was a disc on the back of an elephant on the back of four turtles ...yes thats where terry pratchet got it from ...but the person of faith ...around 4,000yrs ago would have been ridiculed for adhering to what scripture said. is that not a good example of adhering to your scriptures instead of following along with the latest human philosophy/idea/change?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    surely the whole point of a religous belief is to change your life from materialism and lust to something higher?
    So being gay is all about materialism and lust?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by piccolo
    No, it's about putting your trust in the Lord. Having faith that He will help and guide you.
    surely faith must be based on knowledge? or it is blind faith which the bible does not agree with.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by byny
    SPOT ON ZELLA


    *takes a bow*

    It took me a while to figure this out.
    I do believe but im not sure if i have faith.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    surely faith must be based on knowledge? or it is blind faith which the bible does not agree with.
    Yes, you can't have faith without belief.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But you cant have belief with out knowlege.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Zella
    But you cant have belief with out knowlege.
    Exactly!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    errr in response to the original question
    1 Corinthians 6

    9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offender

    Think that means they don't get into heaven, therefore they are 'wicked' etc and wrong.
Sign In or Register to comment.