Taking the f*cking piss!

Former Member

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Hardly. I agree that non-violent means are the only way to go for the Palestinians. Where I think you're being naive, though, is in believing that the Israeli government will stand for such underhanded methods, when they rely on Hamas atrocities to maintain the status quo for decades to come. A state of quasi-war is what suits the IG best, and they're dab hands at keeping the pot simmering.

Now you are doing exactly what Clandestine was doing and thinking of the Israeli government in their current mindset. What im advocating will make sure that its not in Israels interest to keep a state of quasi war but to make them believe a state of peace is what suits them best.

There were two parts to my suggestion remember, not just the Palestinian part. Each action provides motivation to the other side to keep to their agreed action.

Former Member

Actually no BD, this perspective (as shown in the comprehensive history of the conflict i posted in this thread earlier (did you even read through it?) has been part of the Zionist programme of total acquisition of the land since they first drove the Palestinian inhabitants off their land prior to and during the creation of the State of Israel.

Former Member

Listen Clandestine, why can you not simply accept that someone has a differing opinion? I refuse to believe that the Israelis wouldnt rather have peace than the current situation. By Israelis I mean the Israeli population, ive already seen id like to see the end of Sharon and his ilk.

Im just suggesting something I feel would be the best way for peace.. and its a damn sight more feasible than expecting things to be hunky dorey after stopping all aid to Israel and ignoring the Palestinians.

Former Member

Originally posted by Balddog
Now you are doing exactly what Clandestine was doing and thinking of the Israeli government in their current mindset. What im advocating will make sure that its not in Israels interest to keep a state of quasi war but to make them believe a state of peace is what suits them best.

There were two parts to my suggestion remember, not just the Palestinian part. Each action provides motivation to the other side to keep to their agreed action.

A state of peace will ultimately result in the Israeli arab population getting full rights, including the right to vote, yes? And arabs are breeding faster in Israeli-controlled territories than Jewish citizens, with migration of Jews to Israel dwindling fast. Therefore, I contest, if Israeli politicians wish to retain a Jewish state, which has always been kind of a preoccupation with them, peace is not an option. What they need is some kind of miracle. If Bush ever manages to sort out Iraq, they just might get it.

Former Member

Being a debating thread, I was always under the impression that people were here to debate. But by all means, hold to your opinions.

I merely point out that its unrealistic, certainly as far as an oppressed Palestinian population would consider it.

Former Member

Originally posted by Clandestine
Being a debating thread, I was always under the impression that people were here to debate. But by all means, hold to your opinions.

I merely point out that its unrealistic, certainly as far as an oppressed Palestinian population would consider it.

and I point out that its unrealistic to expect Israel to make all the concessions and make the first move toward peace.

I also never suggested that this would happen, just that its an idea of what id like to see happen. Terribly sorry if im willing to be optimistic in the pursuit of peace. Palestine will cease to be if things dont change soon.

Former Member

And if that happens the Israeli government will have demonstrated themselves as evil as those who once sought the annihilation of the Jews.

As for concessions, Israel has yet to make any that are legitimate and not merely used as bargaining chips for even more concessions for the Palestinians. The Camp David accords clearly demonstrated that.

When Israel actually honours its UN obligations then speak to me about onesidedness, thanks.

Former Member

With regard to the "illegal" status, you are right Balddog. Israel has not signed to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and thus technically their nuclear weapons are not illegal.

What they are though, is undeclared. That makes Israel the only nuclear power in the world never to have admitted owning nukes- and subsequently refusing to allow the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to monitor its nuclear facilities or to give some guaranties about its non-use.

Most if not all nuclear nations have made a "not first strike" commitment, meaning on paper at least that they will not use nukes on other nations unless attacked with nukes first. Israel on the other hand has not made such declaration (since it has no nukes, right?) and so appears to imply that it 'reserves the right' to use nukes when it pleases. I'm sure I don't have to explain how this raises tensions, and how it is helping other nations such as Iran and previously Iraq to seek their own nuclear deterrent.

Speaking of Iran, as we all know the war drums of the US Empire are threatening to resound again, all because Iran refuses to submit its installations for IAEA inspections.

Funnily enough, there are several UN resolutions that demand Israel grant access to the IAEA for inspections of its nuclear installations. So although the weapons might not be illegal, there are outstanding UN resolutions regarding their status. No doubt if such resolutions existed about a country populated by infidel Arabs good old Dubya would be taking care of it fairly swiftly.

Former Member

Clandistine????

Ok which is it Clandistine? And just who needs to brush up on history?

Quote from your posted article:

Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel.

My post from the thread Middle East Shambles:

This is just another example of leftist spin. The region has been in turmoil for thousands of years and now it's all GW Bush's fault.

Your reply from the same thread:

As for thousands of years, perhaps the region has been in turmoil, however such a statement begs the actual roots of this particular conflict which dates back to 1948 and the creation of the secular state of Israel. God didnt reestablish israel, the Balfour Declaration did. Best you go brush up on the history of that.

Middle East Shambles

Former Member

There is no contradictions there Bandito, I suggest you read the paragraphs you cited once again a bit more carefully and youll see that.

Former Member

OK.:rolleyes:

Former Member

Unconfirmed Report

Arafat is Dead...

Former Member

For geographical reasons Israel is in the front line fighting the evil Islamofacists, who’s sole aim is to spread the area of control of their evil ideology. Well done Israel keep up the good work.

Former Member

Too those who think that there is a likely hood of peace in the area, I think that you are misguided or just plain simple headed. I predict that Israel will invade Syria within the 12 months.

Former Member

For geographical reasons Israel is in the front line fighting the evil Islamofacists, who’s sole aim is to spread the area of control of their evil ideology. Well done Israel keep up the good work.

You could also say that for historical and birthright reasons the inhabitants of Palestine are in the front line of fighting the evil Islamophobic invaders, whose sole aim is to spread the 'promised land' and create an exclusive Jewish Zionist state across the Middle East. Well done Arab World, keep up the good work!

Anything else Paul?

:rolleyes:

Former Member

That land belongs to the Jews IMHO Aladdin, and they should have a bit more too, and I’m not Jewish, in fact I don’t personally know anyone who is.

Read the history of Islam, the Arabs fired up by their terrorist prophet wiped out may peoples in the Middle East, North Africa and beyond, Then they were strong, now they are weak, its payback time.

And the Palestinians are loosing big time.

Former Member

Er, no the land doesn't "belong to the Jews". Check your history books.

Yes, the Palestinians are losing big time. Just as the Jewish race was losing big time during the early 1940s. So what are we going to do about it?