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It's not a matter of jealousy. I could quite easily buy a PS2 if I really wanted to. However, I'm not a big fan of computer games, so I bought myself a nice stereo and a large television instead.
Most students who get jobs do so to kill some of the free time that they are given. The attitude that I've come across is that when you only have two hours of lectures a day, you might as well do something that means you get paid in your free time.
Why should that not be the case. You don't have to go to University. It's not a matter of life or death. Why shouldn't you pay for a service?
Saying "in virtually all cases" is a very broad generalisation. It is also incorrect. There are a great number of university graduates, people with countless letters after their names, who actually have very little. They're certainly not in the right tax bracket to be funding university students.
The salary level that Student Loan repayment skick in a lot higher than the average graduate's starting salary, certainly more than "a few grands (sic)". In some cases, graduates can work for 5 years before having to start making repayments.
The only thing daunting about University for these people is the work involved. Saying that they can't afford it is a very easy cop-out. As there is such a strong link between having a degree and acquiring a well-paid job, surely the pros outweigh the cons?
I'm bored of having to repeat myself, so I'm just going to copy and paste what I said in my last post:
As for trying to deny poor people access to certain things, give me a break. I've not once said that higher education should be limited to the wealthy. Far from it. If people are intelligent enough to study at a university and have shown their ability with a good set of A-levels, they are more than welcome to go to university, irrespective of their background.
You've really caught me out, haven't you? It's time for me to end this masquerade. :rolleyes:
It's a quote from a movie. It doesn't have to be grammatically correct.
It wasn't a petty little error. Why not break the habit of a lifetime and use correct grammar and punctuation? The apostrophe key is 2 to the left of the letter 'l' on your keyboard. Try it out sometime. Unless it's fallen off from being underused.
Having three A-levels with at a least one 'A' grade.
There is a popular misconception that the "full university experience" equates to being drunk all the time. It does not. If you want to go out drinking all the time, that is your perogative, but you can't expect the government to shell out for it. The Student Loan is principly aimed at covers the costs of the essentials (books, rent, food, utilities etceteras). Any extra wants come at the cost of something else.
Are you telling me my posts are that bad?
I actually try my best, I am not a brilliant writer as I have said here many times before, I dont think you are justified in having a go at me for that one error in the post we are talking about.
Dont try and be cocky, its not clever and neither are you :rolleyes:
Higher education does not consist solely of degrees though. There are other courses available too, more suited to people who perhaps did not quite achieve so well at A-Level. They're still students, they're still at university. Just not doing a degree. So they should still receive funding, n'est-ce pas?
At least one 'A'? Well that'd cut university entry by a long way. To be honest I know very intelligent people who were just unlucky and got Bs instead of their predicted As despite their hard work, would they not be suitable for university? What about one A and 2 Ds?
3 Cs or more at A-level is very good in my opinion. The A-levels should be taken into consideration too. An 'A' in media, is that equal to an 'A' in physics?
I meant the full university experience as in furthering your education, expanding your mind, discovering yourself, progressing in social skills, developing a fun social life and meeting new people.
And don't be so pedantic and rude towards Becky. Your egotistical attempts at putting someone who has more experience of real life than you down is really pathetic.
I know!
If people really care, they'll correct themselves.
Or maybe this is the 'Grammar convention' message board?!? Or message board 'For condescending people". In which case I'm off.
lmao, no that would be this board :crazyeyes
I was bored and wondered if any really existed!
I know im a terrible writer and always use the wrong words but I didnt think I was that bad
no, that's what I'm trying to say! You don't have to use the Queen's English to make a good point. And I think you make damn fine points Becky.
When you post on here (or at least this is true for me) you type as if you're speaking. and when you speak you don't always get it "right". nobody notices it in speech because it's spontaneous and because everybody does it.
the message boards are kind of written down form of speech, and it doesn't matter what words, spellings, punctuation marks or smileys you use as long as you get your point across.
What you want to say comes across. Don't let pedantic comments like that upset you. It always happens here. If you don't type as eloquently or succinctly as some people or use the correct lingo; you're labelled as stupid. :rolleyes:
lol that board is funny! I hope no-one goes there for fun. Ironically, should have looked there before my english exam.
Thank you
I do have this thing about my typing, I know I make errors and sometimes my grammar is not perfect so when a point is made about it i get this kind of paranoia coming over me
People like you don't need to try, it's part of your personality. Someone whose biggest worry is how to get daddy to give him a Rolex cannot comprehend what life is like for the ordinary person, let alone the poor. Not your fault just the way of the world. I also really enjoy the way your posts paint me as little Communist jealous of the rich people in their big houses with their big cars.
Hence they are able to afford the money to buy PS2s and DVD players.
If you have student grants they do pay for the service through taxation when they work as do their parents. The fact is there are great economic gains for society by having a large degree level educated population because as I said before when I gave my five reasons (which you convienently ignored) because it makes us more internationally competitive and they are likely to earn more and so pay more tax. The fact is it's hugely desirable for people to go to university so it should be encouraged. Also education is a merit good and so will be undeprovided by the free market.
They'd still be paying taxes and so funding university students. You're wrong about repayments - the average graduate starting salary was £18,000 in 2001 and repayments begin at £10,000 much less than the average graduate starting salary as you incorrectly suggest. Seeing as a shelf stacker at Sainsbury's is on about £13,000 repayments are collected regardless of how crap your income is.
I'm sure if these people were prepared to work for their A-levels they surely do so with the intention of going to university and therefore are more likely to be prepared to work hard. Incidentally, most drop outs are from private schools where they just went to uni because it was seen as the done thing as opposed to the state school kids who had to work for it. But the debt does put a lot of bright kids off, I don't expect you to understand because you come from a different world to the kind of kid that would get put off by that debt and would weigh up the choice between working now and no debt and working for more later but having a mountain of debt.
I'm bored of you repeating yourself too, it's tedious. You don't seem to get that by charging for university you implicitly deter bright working class kids from going to university. If grants were restored all kids with ability could go to university, isn't that better than having kids with ability put off by the fear of debt?
Yay for grammatical incorrectness!
I am really fussy when it comes to grammar and english language and your posts never annoy me Becky because what you have to say is interesting - sometimes the most perfectly written piece with all the correct grammar, sophisticated lexis etc. in the world can be the biggest load of bollocks.
um do you actually know any real students? Most of my friends who have jobs do so because they simply don't have enough money. The student loan is all well and good but unless you have parents who are able to provide more on top of that it's virtually impossible to live off.
A friend of mine last year just narrowly missed out on getting the means-tested part of the loan. She was working something ridiculous like 40 hours a week just to pay her rent. some days she couldn't get into uni because she couldn't afford the bus fare.
not all students are living comfortably.
As some of you may know education and health service is free in Denmark unless you choose to go private. And the article showed what I have been saying for some time, that it's not always as ideal as it's made to be.
It's interesting that you should mention that. All the cod-socialists on here think that the Scandanavian countries are great because they have such high taxes. Yet, when I speak to my various Scandanavian friends (Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish) about the quality of life, they often tell me that it's not nearly as good as it's made out to be.
You can easily see who comes from a private school and who doesn't. And I won't even start talking about the medical system here. I have so many stories which really makes you doubt why you're paying all that tax.
Not all students are at uni to learn. I know many who have gone and leached and all they got was a hangover, a third and a huge over draft. Why should I as a taxpayer foot the bill? On the other foot I shouldn't have to pay for the other freeloaders?
And before you get high and mighty with all your "wonderful, enlightened" views I have a perfect case.
Person X worked from 15 until he had an accident (not his fault i might add) at 50 odd. For paying all that time into the NHS etc etc and what does he get?? For a family of 3?? yup 60 odd quid sick pay which had to be paid back. So not only students are "poor".
Also person X never had a degree they did what most people did and got a job and got on with it and earned more than most do with a degree.
People who want degree's that badly should save up. Nothing stops you going to uni at 21 or 24 when you have some money behind you but most of you leavers think that its 18 or nothing.
If you want a career so badly what is 3 years to wait and save?
Anyway flame whinge etc or maybe post something constructive.
If that does happen i might even reply
Take care
And you'll see how the people who have the money and fund this, will slowly leave the country, leaving all the benefit recievers to make their own efforts.
Just as much as you'd decline recieving a bonus from work, or a better paying job, to stay among your peers and comrades.
It is perfectly compatible to demand higher taxes for those who can afford it without renouncing to capitalism altogether. I'm not suggesting everybody should earn the same wage. But I object to fat CEOs who do nothing earning 25 times more than the floor worker who keeps the company running. And I certainly object to people who earn millions of Pounds as year protesting about having to pay a pittance more in taxes they’re not even going to notice missing from their fat bank accounts.
If any greed-consumed millionaire wants to leave the country because he faces paying 2% more taxes, then it is indeed good riddance. Perhaps if all the rich people paid the taxes they should instead of exploiting loopholes, operating from tax havens and employing accountants to cheat out of paying as much they can, there would be enough money for all basic services and welfare and no tax raised would ever be needed.
:rolleyes: Listen up komrad. This issue has already been covered and what you are saying is simply not true. 'Fat cats' work hard for their money and deserve every penny that they get. They certainly do not deserve to be taxed heavily for a large proportion.
Do you have any experience/evidence to contrary of what I've just said? As please try to do better than kevlar85's rather pathetic, "I worked in a bank answering phones. I was shocked to see that the workers were not chained to their desks! Where was the gulag that I had envisioned?"
If everybody paid as much tax as you demand, you'd simply up the tax rate. :rolleyes:
Speaking of greed-consumed millionaires leaving the country to avoid high taxation, how come nobody has mentioned rock & pop stars? David Bowie moved to Switzerland to avoid the UK's high taxation. Robbie Williams has moved to the US to the same. Others use the loopholes that you talk about. How come it's alright for them? Is it because they are 'working class heroes'?
:rolleyes:
Just as bad for them too. It's just people acquring a high lifestyle and then greed not allowing them to accomodate for other people.
Especially Robbie - giving us shite music and then not paying tax.