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Is suicide a chioce? Sensitive topic

ShaunieShaunie Posts: 11,699 An Original Mixlorian
Hi.
I think this is a sensitive topic but one that needs to be adressed and discused for more awarness but not to much for peoole to think it is a way out, just understanding, instead of silence.
In my opinion suicide isnt a chioce. I think suicide isnt what someone is choosing to do but what could a mental illness causing them to do. But in some cases it may not be cause by a mental illness and then that may be chioce.
But if someone has a mental and they are in that much pain their mental illness makes them see this is their only way out, not them. Even though its not but they cant see it at the time.
Ive read that people shouldnt say "commit suicide". And i compley agree with this. Because commit suggest something bad like commit a crime. And that we should be saying "death by suicide" or "death by depression" it causes more stigma of mental illness.
If i lost someone to suicide i would want to think this. Ive spend a whole session discussing this with a mental health practitioner and i think i conviced them but then when i asked a different mental health proffesional they didnt hesitate and said its not a chioce like mental illness isn't.
What are peoples views?
.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I personally don't see the issue with saying 'commit suicide' simply because the word commit isn't necessarily a bad thing? like yeah it's used to say someone committed a crime, but it's also used to say someone is committed to something or someone.

    I think suicide is a choice, it's easier for people to accept it that way.
  • LostsenseLostsense Posts: 1,331 The Mix Regular
    Suicide is not a choice it's when the pain has reached no resources the patient is blinded and feels there is no way out but to die.
  • Jacob101Jacob101 Rampant Poster Posts: 685 Incredible Poster
    I don't see suicide as a choice. When someone is that low there judgement is blinded like @Steph95 says. - They have to do it for the sake of themselves and sometimes for friends and family around then; most feel like a complete burden.
    'Don't worry about failures, worry about the chances you miss when you don't even try.'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not arguing that they don't feel like a burden, but I still feel like it's a choice. My best friend chose to end her life, my brother chose to try and end his life.. in my opinion at the end of the day it's still a choice
  • Jacob101Jacob101 Rampant Poster Posts: 685 Incredible Poster
    Some people see it as the only option.
    'Don't worry about failures, worry about the chances you miss when you don't even try.'
  • ShaunieShaunie Posts: 11,699 An Original Mixlorian
    Some people dont die by a mental illness but just because things get to over whelming and that might be a chioce like to many bills to pay. But people who have mental illnesses get their thought taken over by it and they get told that they need to and feel like its the besr option. But when they are better rhey would see its not a chioce. But at the moment they was controled by an illness. That i think/know anyway
    .
  • One-in-a-millionOne-in-a-million Noob Posts: 517 Incredible Poster
    Something I've never mentioned on the boards and actually never really told anyone.
    When I was 16 I thought about suicide quite a bit. This was due to all the bullying going on at school and the fact no one seemed to think I would go far in life as I couldn't learn as quickly as the others. I thought about it but thankfully the urge was never bad enough to act upon it.

    If it was a choice people wouldn't do it. My thoughts weren't strong but I know I wouldn't choose to feel that way no one would
    Emoji246
  • AuroraAurora Part of the furniture Posts: 11,720 An Original Mixlorian
    I think it's a choice, solely down to the fact that you 'choose to kill yourself' even if you think it's your last resort etc, and aren't thinking rationally, in that irrational moment, you're still choosing to make those choices. If you get me? - Okay, look at it like this, people die everyday, people who die by suicide don't just die, they do something that they choose to, to inflicts the pain on themselves to get the outcome.

    Some people think it's the only CHOICE, and it's not, like, it's the Life vs death scenario, you choose to live or die. Still a choice. And it's not about feelings when it comes to whether or not its a choice, it is solely choice, if you get me?
  • ShaunieShaunie Posts: 11,699 An Original Mixlorian
    I think it's a choice, solely down to the fact that you 'choose to kill yourself' even if you think it's your last resort etc, and aren't thinking rationally, in that irrational moment, you're still choosing to make those choices. If you get me? - Okay, look at it like this, people die everyday, people who die by suicide don't just die, they do something that they choose to, to inflicts the pain on themselves to get the outcome.

    Some people think it's the only CHOICE, and it's not, like, it's the Life vs death scenario, you choose to live or die. Still a choice. And it's not about feelings when it comes to whether or not its a choice, it is solely choice, if you get me?

    I get where you are coming from but people who have survived suicide didnt think they had a chioce they think that was the only way out of so much pain because their illness told them that, and couod of told them to do that. They didnt choose to have the illness in the first place.
    Their illness chooses it for them not them. People physically cant think racionally and logically when they are in those crisises. Hope that makes sense .
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's a choice, solely down to the fact that you 'choose to kill yourself' even if you think it's your last resort etc, and aren't thinking rationally, in that irrational moment, you're still choosing to make those choices. If you get me? - Okay, look at it like this, people die everyday, people who die by suicide don't just die, they do something that they choose to, to inflicts the pain on themselves to get the outcome.

    Some people think it's the only CHOICE, and it's not, like, it's the Life vs death scenario, you choose to live or die. Still a choice. And it's not about feelings when it comes to whether or not its a choice, it is solely choice, if you get me?

    Exactly this! Like there have been times where I've wanted to kill myself, but I chose not to exact on it. There have been times where I've wanted to kill myself and acted on it, but that was still my choice to do so.
  • AuroraAurora Part of the furniture Posts: 11,720 An Original Mixlorian
    Shaunie wrote: »

    I get where you are coming from but people who have survived suicide didnt think they had a chioce they think that was the only way out of so much pain because their illness told them that, and couod of told them to do that. They didnt choose to have the illness in the first place.
    Their illness chooses it for them not them. People physically cant think racionally and logically when they are in those crisises. Hope that makes sense .


    I get where you're coming from, being someone who also battles a mental illness that fucks with my head more than I would like it too, and I know what it's like to 'attempt' and the feelings around it and so forth. I still however think, despite the fact we don't have a choice int he mental illness we are fighting, we do have a choice in the actions we take.

    As the example I shared earlier, with suicide, you choose to end your life, you make that decision, whether in a rational or irrational state of mind, it doesn't just 'happen.' For us not to have a choice, it would have to be inevitable. I personally think suicide is something that can be inevitable, there is support people to help them with these feelings, but it's just about accessing support sooner.

  • ShaunieShaunie Posts: 11,699 An Original Mixlorian
    So what if someone had vioces telling them thats what they needed to do, to make everyone happy. Or on drugs. And they genuinely belived that so thats what they did.
    I have depression and have attempted suicide and have sereve mental illness. In the moment i didnt have a chioce because depression took over my thinking. And Thats exactly what it does. You don't have control or choose when those moments happen. I dont get voices but you can completely get taken over by a mental illness.
    Depression can make you tell things that arent true to yourself. Making suicide their only answer. And thats when depression gets very sereve that they are losing to their illness. Like when a physcial illness gets sereve and can die.
    But i can see where you are coming from and maybe right but yeah -Suicide can be prevented -when its just thoughts but when their acting on it, thats when their losing to their illness. The chemicals in their brains are doing that for them
    .
  • Jacob101Jacob101 Rampant Poster Posts: 685 Incredible Poster
    Shaunie wrote: »
    So what if someone had vioces telling them thats what they needed to do, to make everyone happy. Or on drugs. And they genuinely belived that so thats what they did.
    I have depression and have attempted suicide and have sereve mental illness. In the moment i didnt have a chioce because depression took over my thinking. And Thats exactly what it does. You don't have control or choose when those moments happen. I dont get voices but you can completely get taken over by a mental illness.
    Depression can make you tell things that arent true to yourself. Making suicide their only answer. And thats when depression gets very sereve that they are losing to their illness. Like when a physcial illness gets sereve and can die.
    But i can see where you are coming from and maybe right but yeah -Suicide can be prevented -when its just thoughts but when their acting on it, thats when their losing to their illness. The chemicals in their brains are doing that for them


    I have thought about taking my life many times. I believe that people will only understand if they have been it themselves.
    'Don't worry about failures, worry about the chances you miss when you don't even try.'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jess101 wrote: »


    I have thought about taking my life many times. I believe that people will only understand if they have been it themselves.

    And sometimes even people who have been through it themselves see it as a choice like WOTH and myself for example. Each individual has different experiences and different opinions
  • ShaunieShaunie Posts: 11,699 An Original Mixlorian
    Hiccup wrote: »

    And sometimes even people who have been through it themselves see it as a choice like WOTH and myself for example. Each individual has different experiences and different opinions


    I get that people have different experience and opions. But i dont get why some would actively end their life and think that they are going to die. If they saw a chioce and option of getting better and things being better because yoy cant see it?
    .
  • ShaunieShaunie Posts: 11,699 An Original Mixlorian
    edited January 7
    4 years on and I’m still confused as ever on my onion to this question. Hope I can bring this up again. Just been looking at old threads of mine and kinda wondering what new users think
    .
  • Anch0r33Anch0r33 Posts: 786 Part of The Mix Family
    Hmm Shaunie this is a difficult one and I think it genuinely depends on the individual situation. 

    For some people it will be a choice, and for others it will not be. 

    Some people will have enough capacity and mental awareness to decide that they don't want to live anymore. They'll take the necessary steps to end their life. 

    Then there's some people who don't have the capacity or mental awareness and don't understand what they're doing. These are the people who don't choose to do so. 

    This is coming from my personal opinion and my interpretation of my training at Childline. 

    I think capacity is a major thing and is something that is different for every single person. 

    Interesting discussion. 
    👁️👄👁️
    tkdogAidanMikeShaunie
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 2,823 Boards Guru
    Myself, I'd say suicide isn't a choice, but when there are no choices left.

    You might have tried literally everything else, or you might think you've tried literally everything else because you can't see the other options.

    I'm battling my thoughts right now thinking up new choices every day!
    "Do, or do not, there is no try" <(•.•)>              
    Anch0r33LaineSpaceOtterShaunieMikeLiam
  • MikeMike 🖥️🎧 LandaanPosts: 3,151 Community Manager
    edited January 9
    This is a really interesting one @Shaunie. Very philosophical!

    For me, this boils down to that saying of 'your perception is your reality'.

    We all make decisions and live our lives based on what we honestly believe. And while I personally believe everyone can recover given the right support, there are people in the grip of depression and suicidal thoughts that honestly believe they can't or never will. And for them, that perception is their reality. Their reality and their truth is that ending their life is their only choice.

    From a practical perspective, you could say it is a choice in that people decide "I'm going to end my life". As others have said though, I think that depends on your definition of 'choice'. If it's the only option someone sees in front of them, are they choosing or are they being forced?

    There's an excellent David Foster Wallace quote that springs to mind, where he compares someone ending their life to someone trapped in a burning building:

    TW: suicide
    ... The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.
    All behaviour is a need trying to be met.
    ShaunieAnch0r33chubbydumplingLiam
  • ShaunieShaunie Posts: 11,699 An Original Mixlorian
    edited January 9
    Thanks guys. This is super interesting 

    @Mike
    that is an interesting quote. 

    I’ve just remembered why I asked this in 2017
    its because I told a health professional I want to kill myself and they told me “that is your choice” and after that being said I was like oh right I’m sane enough to make choices. It’s a choice not an illness. 

    (But Then I did attempt a few days later of this post and got sectioned so guess wasnt) 

    And now just thinking I would personally never say to someone who is suicidal that it is their choice to do that cause no one wants to die, only just need an escape. 

    Most times I’ve tried to attempt suicide - I didn’t feel like I was me. Like I was doing things I had no control over. My brain wasn’t there. Wasn’t thinking, and my body was just taking over cause my brain just had enough. But that being said sometime I have definitely felt like I know exactly what I’m doing and planned it and that 

    But @Mike I think you’ve answered my question by saying it’s your definition of the word “choice”

    .
    Anch0r33Mike
  • JellyelephantJellyelephant Bpd bitch ✌🏼 Posts: 803 Part of The Mix Family
    I think a lot of answers to this are just down to semantics. At the most basic level maybe people "choose" to take actions that end their life, however whether that choice is made based on rational thinking, mental illness, desperation etc is another matter. Even if we did say its a "choice" that doesn't mean that the person is bad or weak or whatever, I tend to think of it a bit like if someone had a gun and said either you or your mum will die i would chose to be the one to die.... but it's not because I want to die particularly it's just being backed into a corner and being forced into making a decision you wouldn't usually make. People who are mentally ill and suicidal may "choose" to take their life but it doesn't  mean they understood what they were doing, or that they would have done the same thing if their illness didn't cloud their vision. I think people who feel suicidal are in a huge amount of pain and are suffering greatly and deserve love and care. I don't agree with professionals responding with "it's your choice" because I think that is callous and insensitive. Either way, i think when people say they have "chosen" to end their life I don't think they mean it in the everyday meaning like you would say "I chose to have pasta instead of pizza". I hope you understand what I am trying to get across, it's a very difficult thing to put into words! 
    The sun will rise and we will try again 
    LiamSpaceOtterAnch0r33Salix_alba_2019ShaunieMike
  • Jacob101Jacob101 Rampant Poster Posts: 685 Incredible Poster
    Suicide i dont believe is a choice. Ive been suicidal before and its not what I would choose, its what my mind wishes me to think. Most take their own lives because they think they are an burden on others and others would be better off without them. They feel they are doing people a favour by ending their life
    'Don't worry about failures, worry about the chances you miss when you don't even try.'
    ShaunieAnch0r33Mike
  • DistractionDistraction Noob Posts: 270 The Mix Regular
    edited January 12
    It's a difficult one, these are my thoughts on it (please read with an open mind)

    No one chooses to feel that way because we can't choose any emotions we have, happy, sad, angry etc, we just feel what we feel, although we can change how we think about things which can help to change our emotions. 

    So if someone was to help us change our mind set then we might be able to get better. It would be a very long and hard processes but it is possible. 

    I want to stress that it isn't something we want to do, we are wired to survive and suicided goes against all instincts which means if we do, do it, it's not because we want to but something, like mental illness has brought it on.

    However that isn't to say we have to go through with it (Note: is going through with it a choice?), as I said above we can get help, whether we reach out for that help is a different topic.   

    Now this is where I feel that it starts to get complicated. There maybe a point where our mind doesn't see any other choice in the matter other than to end our life but something inside you still has to make a decision to go through with it.

    Now is this decision taken over by the mental illness and does that mean we aren't in control? 
    Is it down to us personally having enough?
    Are they the same thing at this point, intwined together?

    I don't have the answers to theses questions but I do feel that in the back of your head no matter how small there is a voice or thought or something that gives even a millisecond thought about it before going through with it (weather this is the yes do it moment that some might say peaceful or the oh shit no moment) you have to decide wholeheartedly with every bit of you and think about how are you going to do it? These questions make it a choice because you have to decide them.

    However does having a mental illness stop the critical oh shit no moment from coming into your thoughts? (Therefore in our minds there is no decision to be made)

    Maybe that should be the question.

    (In my personal experience I planed a few ways to go and followed through with one, my sister stopped me, in that moment I wanted to die and I decided to die I said yes to the little voice so I made a choice, it might be different for others)
    AidanShaunieMike
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