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Brainwashed Subjects
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Sorry to do this, but I am so bloody sick of those Americans on this board (they know who they are) who keep on referring to the 'brainwashed Brits.'
We've had servicemen slagged off for wearing the crown on their uniforms. As someone who's worn the Queen's uniform I find that particularly ofensive, but that's beside the point. We might as well trash US servicemen for the fact that they have the letters 'US' as a metal pin on their uniforms. It's a NATIONAL SYMBOL for crying out loud. Of course servicemen wear it.
We've had Brits being decried as thoughtless, brainwashed sheep brought up never to question governmental authority. I think that this is just plain ridiculous coming from inhabitants of a country where schoolchildren are forced to sign the national anthem every day. This coming from people who cannot see the contradictions inherent in their own constitution. This coming from people who live in a country where the votes of right-minded individuals were wilfully discounted and the election to the highest office effectively decided by 9 people, not 250m. Strange, but I saw no armed public uprising in the face of that travesty.
This is NOT an America-bashing. This is me pointing out that for the Americans to call UK citizens brainwashed and docile is a mild case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Thank-you for your attention.
We've had servicemen slagged off for wearing the crown on their uniforms. As someone who's worn the Queen's uniform I find that particularly ofensive, but that's beside the point. We might as well trash US servicemen for the fact that they have the letters 'US' as a metal pin on their uniforms. It's a NATIONAL SYMBOL for crying out loud. Of course servicemen wear it.
We've had Brits being decried as thoughtless, brainwashed sheep brought up never to question governmental authority. I think that this is just plain ridiculous coming from inhabitants of a country where schoolchildren are forced to sign the national anthem every day. This coming from people who cannot see the contradictions inherent in their own constitution. This coming from people who live in a country where the votes of right-minded individuals were wilfully discounted and the election to the highest office effectively decided by 9 people, not 250m. Strange, but I saw no armed public uprising in the face of that travesty.
This is NOT an America-bashing. This is me pointing out that for the Americans to call UK citizens brainwashed and docile is a mild case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Thank-you for your attention.
0
Comments
- Skive <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/nogood.gif">
Forward ever
Backward never
- Skive <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/nogood.gif">
Forward ever
Backward never
[This message has been edited by Skive'n'Dive (edited 29-07-2001).]
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/tongue.gif">
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/tdo13.gif">
I think most Americans really like you guys. Given the space in the tabloids I think Americans like the Royals more than the English do!
You cannot be compelled to sing the National Anthem in school. The courts have ruled students do not even have to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. The burning of the American Flag is protected speech here! The Supreme Court is the final arbiter of law in the land. We are a nation of laws. One may not agree with the courts decision but the Supreme Court is the Court of last appeal.
Our system of government is so different from yours that comparisons between the two are apples and oranges. Even with a common language there is a vast cultural chasm between us as peoples.
IMHO you have your way and we have ours. Let us agree to disagree and remain civil all round!
I think this is a good attitude!
- Skive <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/nogood.gif">
Forward ever
Backward never
The average Brit is no more brainwashed than the average American.
I also should add that the Americans present on this board are extremely fond of their rights and freedoms and are probably a lot more outspoken than a lot of Americans <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
I know that children aren't 'forced' into singing the SSB, not really. They're just put in a room full of others singing it, and at that young age it's hard to go against the flow.
IMHO you have your way and we have ours. Let us agree to disagree and remain civil all round!
YES! Please! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
P.S. I should say sorry for being absent from class for a week - my computer died, horribly. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
Don't be stupid.
OK, so our history isn't perfect and nor is your own or indeed any country for that matter... I'm not rabbiting on about how the barbarians mistreated the goths in 806 AD, can't you just accept that whats happened has happened and move on with your lifes?
Stop living in the past, we need to move on, everyones made mistakes and we all learn from them... no-ones perfect for god sake!
Actually, I think you'll find that the award for highest body count goes to a Mr J Stalin of Georgia.
wouldnt hitler have killed more? (not directly, obviously)
to be honest, i view the symbol of the crown as a symbol of the nation that was willing to fight alone and to the last man, to defend the world from tyranny in 1940-41. the nation that has given millions of lives over the centuries to ensure that we can live in the relatively liberal and free world we do today. not that i'm saying i'm pro-monarchy, or that the british people have never done any wrong. its just the same thing as the US - the stars and stripes is a symbol of freedom and democracy, not the symbol of slavery, 5 million vietnamese dead, and gang-warfare.
so dont insult my nation. i'll get pised off otherwise.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Stalin, though, does even better (or worse, depending on how you look at it). On top of his share of WWII casualties (Russia lost around 50m in the Great Patriotic War), he also scores a few million for the Red Army purges, for the millions who died in the Gulags, the relication-cum-extermination of the people of the Caucasus (including the Chechens).
Oh, by the way, if were going to talk about Britain having been a slave state... Well, the UK outlawed slavery 30 years before the USA did, and also undertook to crush the trade, which the USA didn't. Strikes against slaver facilities and ships, like that depicted at the end of Amistad, did indeed take place. British warships patrolled under a mandate to intercept and sieze any slave ships, return the slaves home, and bring the slavers to trial.
Also, as for killing a fair few... Which country managed to kill the most civilians in a single military strike? That's right, the United States of America, with the bombing of Hiroshima.
Your starter for 10: Form a sentence from the following three words:
Pot. Kettle. Black.
F^ck the pot and the kettle; suck my black d!ck
I know why the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were authorised and I fully support them, for much the same reasons as you mentioned. My point was only that the USA's hands are not entirely clean of civilian blood. Perhaps Vietnam would have been a better example ("It became necessary to destroy the village to save it.")
As for Vietnam, there were very few 'civilians'. Besides the NVA most of the population that was killed ~3mil, were to one extent or a nother Viet Cong. There were mistakes as there always are in combat, but when little kids are running up to you with a 'present' you would have problems with civilians and Viet Cong
Especially after your glorious army left the village - ever heard of My Lai?
Or perhaps I shoudl mention some students at Kent State, if we are talking about killing innocent civilians.
People in glass houses etc...
Each of our countries has civilian blood on their hands, including our own (Bloody Sunday), so Ireally don't think that any of us can preach. The important thing is that we learn from these serious mistakes.
The question is, have we?
As for Hiroshima/Nagasaki - they started it. Tough sh!t, guys, don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!(why? is the stupid bitch drowning?)
oh fuck off, u think ur so funny, u just dont get it. people here are reasonably discussing important topic. save ur joking for the shithole u belong in.
If there's anything more important than my ego around here, i want it caught and shot now
I guess the monarchy learned not to keep the subjects armed with their personal guns after those damned american colonists and the bloody irish.
like the americans say, can't we all just get along?
My friend in Wales tells me that although the Queen is symbolic of the heritage of the UK at the end of the day what she says goes...
when we say United Kingdom, just how "united" are we?
how about you other united peoples? didn't the americans fight wars over what one thought was their constitutional right yet another thought it was not?
referring to your quote Sporster 1200C 'thanks to us you are not speaking German'. Well, don't forget you are speaking 'ENGLISH'
and where your ancestors actually came from!
By the way, why are Americans claiming all the 'glory' for the mass destrution that Little Boy and Fat Man caused?
I don't think its great to wipe out 200 000 civilians. And don't forget, Albert Einstien was a JEW! not american.
What about 7 of December, Pearl Harbour?
could hiroshima and nagasaki been a pay back?
America just sat and do nothing for most of WWII. The rest of the allies did the fighting.
I am not from the UK either, so I am not on anyone's side on this argument.
Just get your facts straightened and study them thoroughly before presenting your argument.
Britain did some nasty stuff in her Imperialist history but so has just about every country in Europe..As for America, take a look at their actions in the Philippines circa 1899-1902. Look up a man named General Jacob H Smith and see his order of "Kill everyone over ten.."
Very, very few countries have a clean record and bringing up the things we see as crimes today does nothing but stoke up anger.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
There were FAR more civilian casualties in the Vietnam conflict attributible to NVA and Viet Cong action than can EVER be REALISTICALLY placed upon the US forces. Not stating that things did not happen, but GET REAL! War is NOT a politically correct activity, but there were decidedly disparate goals, agendas, and courses of motivation.
BTW ~ the tag Thanatos was bestowed three decades ago in recognition of a singleminded devotion to commitment. It was intended as an insult to a warrior, but has been worn with pride. Call me what you will, but it is the last man standing who writes the chronicals of history... When a commitment has been made, it IS persued with the intensity and seriousness of Death.
ROTFLMFAO! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"> Kinda cut to the heart of the matter on THAT one, did you not? Allow people to be armed, and it makes it more difficult to subjugate them to your whim, to enslave them! Just ask Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. Right there at the top of their playbook!
[This message has been edited by thanatos (edited 08-08-2001).]
Only a fool is going to throw rocks at armed men, with loaded guns. Only a fool would bring rock to a gunfight, and push until the fight was started. Would YOU throw a rock at a man holding a rifle? If so, then removing you from the gene pool would be a service... it would serve to raise the median intellect.
There are CONSEQUENCES to civil disobediance. Read Tolstoy. If you CANNOT own up to the consequences, best not commit the act, because to whine and snivel in the aftermath is prima facie of the cowardice of the weenie...
I RESPECT Muhammad Ali, who refused military service, and was both jailed and stripped of his world championship title. I disgree with him on MANY issues, but I RESPECT him. He did not whine and snivel, but comported himself in an honorable (if somewhat garish) manner. For those who snivel about initiating a confrontation, then bearing the consequences, I have only DISGUST!
The bombing of Dresden caused horrible casualties. The "Blitz" caused horrible casualties. Any way you look at it every one at the time was busy killing people.
WHY DID TRUMAN USE THE A-BOMB?
1) Operation Coronet the invasion of Japan would have cost app. 1.5 million American casualties (killed). Extrapolate what the cost would have been to the Japanese people. In order to save lives Truman ordered the bomb dropped.
2) Would the Japanese have used the A-Bomb if they had developed it first. YES!!!
What is interesting is that Italy, Germany, and Japan who lost WWII are the amongst the top economic powerhouses of the world.
The UK on the other hand has had and is having a dreadful time of it! Hmmmmm?
(a) as a warning to the russians (who, now in control of eastern europe, looked a formidable foe), thus the first shot of the cold war, and america marking her territory as a superpower.
(b) vindication of america's anguish over the war (this was, after all the most bloody external war they had ever fought) and in particular Pearl Harbour.
(c) a quick way to force unconditional surrender on an already broken people.
in warfare, there are no winners, only losers. the british lost almost as heavily as the germans in both world wars (relatively speaking, that is). germany, italy and japan, also losers, became economic powers on the funding of Marshall Aid, and the Truman Doctrine. Same sort of thing with Japan. this is why we have such a US-centred global economy today - massive US investment in defeated/poor nations after WW2 in order to prevent the spread of communism. but even the USA didnt win the second world war - they just had the advantage of geographical isolation and a large commercial base, which enabled them to become shielded from the worst of the war and its aftermath.
'only a fool is going to throw rocks at armed men'. fair point, but (metaphorically speaking) without them, there would have never been any French Resistance, no free India, etc etc. it takes a lot of fools to change the world.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum