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What I was pushing was the inane thought that an act of civil disobedience should be immune from reaction by the forces confronted. Own up to the resposibility of the act. If the dissidents at Kent State had not been throwing missiles, there would NOT have been shots fired...
Besides, the issue of "innocent civilians"... if you believe that the protesters at KSU were innocent, then you are as ignorant and naive as they were... You thrown rocks at ME where my ordered mission is to quell destruction of property, and I WILL mess up your day. To question THAT goes beyond ignorance and toward rampant stupidity...
[This message has been edited by thanatos (edited 08-08-2001).]
Chamberlin so elequantly demonstrated the British position concerning tyranny, and THAT had much to do with World War II. The United States presence in Vietnam is a demonstration of the lesson learned from observing Chamberlin and Hitler. Confront the enemy, in his yard, before he brings the conflict to yours.
1. America did a lot in WW2 even before we actually declared war. We funded both the UK and USSR from the begining of the war. We supplied bombs, ammo and other supplies to the UK and USSR. Lets see most of the U-boats and blockading of supplies for the Nazis..... oh wait that was the US (I said most not all)
2. And what about our other axis power? What did the UK or USSR do, about nothing. Maybe a aussie ship or two did a blockade but not much more.
3. backtracking... As for the English blood, why do you think any of us are English? That was the original mass of the colonies, but by the late 1800's german speaking people outwayed their English speaking friends. There are also large hispanic and african-american populations in this country. Most people have little english blood.
4. If the Nazi's were already on the brink of defeat, why did the war last 3 more years? And considering that at D-day the US took 3 beachheads and you took 2, that's what I thought. Besides for the fact if the war had lasted even a month longer you would have been gone. When we rolled into Germany they were about 2 to 3 weeks away from deployable atomic bombs of there own. I know that the V2 rocket wasn't very accurate but who cares with atomic warheads.
5. Albert Einstien was German (Jewish is a religious belief) And why didn't he come to the UK, after all it is a lot closer. That's right, didn't want him, your loss.
PS unless you are really looking for a blood bath, there are those on this forum that have spent more time alive before most of you were born than after. Just thought I'd worn you before you go to deep into Vietnam.
Cheers. Thank you. Apart from the fact that the USSR then turned the planes you gave them against you...
There are 50 million dead Soviet citizens who say otherwise.
And the Axis powers were Germany, Italy and Japan. Learn who was on which side before you start mouthing off.
The German bomb programme was a complete non-starter. Heisenberg screwed up the numbers. Their bomb would absolutely never have worked.
Look, the UK fought one hell of a rearguard action. If you accept that the UK's role was to hang in until the USA and USSR came in, we did ONE HELL OF A JOB.
Victory in WWII had so many components. Pressure on the East from the USSR. Pressure on the West from the Western Allies. The UK just keeping the show going long enough. Australia for providing a springboard for the Pacific island-hopping campaign. It was a true TEAM EFFORT. Grow up and accept that no one party can take all the glory.
the vietnamese wanted communism - that's why they welcomed the NVA in 1975 and after. that, and the fact that the US had bombed the living shit out of their country for a decade or so (fat lot of good democracy had done them, so why not try something else, i guess).
i cant be arsed to argue why Hitler was not doing too well in late 1941, but suffice is to say that setbacks in 1940-41 had already lost him the war in the long run. as for D-Day, the fact that the US had more troops/ships/aircraft available might have had someting to do with the fact that they were given the task of 3 of the beach-heads. not, of course, that they wanted to use the lovely new british-developed amphibious tanks (complete with flamethrowers, i might add) that were offered free of charge. but thats not my point.
does it matter anyway - hollywood will recall that Americans won the war single-handed anyway (or, to be more precise, a few Americans bearing a distinct resemblance to Tom Hanks, Clint Eastwood, Gregory Peck, etc). believe what you will - in war, there are no victors, only losers anyway.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
"Grow up and accept that no one party can take all the glory."
We can, we did, we still do. Live with it.
Yes, it's true that we speak English as a result of descending from you..... but our forefathers were smart enough to realize just how much you all SUCKED, so they left.
I may not go down in history, but I'll go down on your sister!
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Go see if Turtle needs a playmate in the microwave, ya' putz! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/tongue.gif">
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*completely forgot this was the politics forum*
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Triumph run on a vinegar and water mixture, don't they?
[This message has been edited by Sportster 1200C (edited 08-08-2001).]
they blow
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Actually if you will read what I said it was the other axis power, aka Japan (true Italy was an axis power but minor compaired to the big two). So before you remark on my lack of history comp, you might want to take a look at your reading comp.
Yes I'll admit that you did a good job of holding them off, you just made it sound like That is why I said anything in the first place.
BTW what is a flamethrower going to do on a AAV? The enemy wasn't on the beach, they were on the surrounding hillside. If you want to take credit for the AAV's used in WW2, more lives were lost just getting to the shore than actually made it.
[This message has been edited by thanatos-jr (edited 09-08-2001).]
All of which we had to PAY for, it was a business deal - lend/lease - not a donation.
Let's see. We started fighting the Italians in 1939 in Ethiopia and North Africa. We started fighting the Germans around the same time and the Japanese were already engaged with UK forces when they bombed Pearl Harbour. Who else SHOULD we have been fighting?
I don't think I can disagree with you there.
Just point out that Thankgiving is about the actions of Brits (and some of your natural country men - who you've tried to wipe out ever since!), that the Declaration was written by rebellious Brits. So you still have our influence there even if you don't have our blood.
D-Day - a country of 50 million takes TWO beaches, a country FIVE TIMES the size takes THREE.
If the war had lasted a month longer? I think you'll find that it was the Russians who got to Berlin not the Yanks. I suspect that the war ended when I did because they were standing outside the bunker at the time.
He was born German, renounced his citizenship before the turn of the century and became Swiss. He moved to the US in the Thirties and became a US citizen in 1940 out of choice, not because he wasn't wanted.
After the death of the first president of Israel in 1952, the Israeli government decided to offer the post of second president to Einstein. He refused but found the offer an embarrassment since it was hard for him to refuse without causing offence.
Oh, and one of his last acts was to call for the destruction of atomic weapons.
Sorry, we didn't fight in Vietnam, Perhaps if we had you wouldn't have ended up with defeat <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif">
Only kidding.
What you seem to overlook is that the UK kept the germans held off - had we lost then you would have had them to deal with rather than the Russians - and without your help, or our country to use as a weapons base. Remember it was the Germans who declared war on YOU, without that there is no guarantee that you would even have fought in Europe, so don't get sanctimonious on us.
I am grateful for the assistance that the US gave us in WW2, but remember that it was assistance and you didn't do it alone.
[This message has been edited by Man Of Kent (edited 08-08-2001).]
Opera_Bitch, Harleys are very nice thank you!
And now please resume the rant...........
even if it ran on piss it'd still be faster <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/tongue.gif">
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The newer Triumphs had their oil filters removed and replaced with a sanitary napkin.
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and I am on neither side in this debate.
I just check my history books.
Well, the German U boats sunk more American destroyers than the Americans can actually produce at the height of WWII.
The Americans did provide supplies, but that is an insignificant amount compared to what the rest of the Allies actually gave to the war.
You got the wrong idea. I was just pointing out that you were being a racist against the English. (ps I am not even English)
Albert Einstien was captured by the Americans!. Which he later became a citizen. I guess that clears all the smoke.!
MackenZie was wrong on this :- The Germans would have deployed the A-bomb and it would have worked BUT its was the BRITISH army that inflitrated their H30 plant.( Heavy water, a substance needed in mass amount for the A-bomb)
I agree that no one nation can claim glory to WWII.
To conclude, thanatos-jr: please get your facts right. I am here for an intellectual debate, not for claiming the glory of something none of us were actually involved in.!
Albert Einstien was captured huh? Well that is an interesting peice of history not in any book I've read.
BTW: history books are facts based on a persons perspective. The ones you read are made to make you look good, ours so we look good. As for getting my facts straight, I'll admit that there could be some conflicting arguments. I'm not saying that the UK did nothing, they did the most they could, but the US had a better chance without the UK than the other way around. Both our countries did their service to protect the free world.
Maybe you've read a different history than I have, but the history that I have of the 1975 invasion says that the Army of the Republic of Vietnam fought until they ran out of ammunition. Sounds rather British of them, doesn't it? And surely does not sound the action of a nation greeting communism to their nation. Kind of like those Indians who were blown apart on the ends of English guns greeting English civilization, isn't it?
Or rather, thanatos-jr.
I never said that. The reason I know that is because
(a) it isn't true;
(b) it isn't my sentiment;
(c) I would have used the past tense.
NEVER use quotes unless it is a damn quote. Misquote me - fine. Put what you did in scare quotes - fine. Actually say that it is what I think and said - NOT FINE IN THE LEAST.
[This message has been edited by MacKenZie (edited 09-08-2001).]
*knows what a feckin oil filter is*
jeeeez.... <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif">
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[This message has been edited by opera bitch (edited 10-08-2001).]
I may not go down in history, but I'll go down on your sister!
awesome! i say no more...
Sporty and Oprahbeeyatch,
bike argument is senseless...
You don't own shit until you buy a Ducati!
caio
awesome! i say no more...
Sporty and Oprahbeeyatch,
bike argument is senseless...
You don't own shit until you buy a Ducati!
caio