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Children Using Facebook.

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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Miss Riot, I agree with what you have said, I just didn't want to say it...

    Children shouldn't just have to learn about internet safety on their own, this is when problems occur cos they are vulnerable and unsure of the online world, this is when people can take advantage. I went on to one of the girls in my little sisters class on her Facebook page and she has posted a fake age to be able to sign up.

    I didn't want to cause any problems between users by me posting this thread. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Miss_Riot wrote: »
    Shikari, I think you seem to live in a very sheltered world and haven't lived with grooming, manipulation, abuse at home and else where and bullying from everywhere you turn. Everything seems to be so black and white in your world! There is a real need to teach kids about the possible dangers out there, so that they can make informed decisions of their own. Its not just a case of "oh well, they'll learn quick enough", they could be hurt quick enough too.

    What about teaching kids about privacy settings, what you do and don't share online, not just meeting up with people? Kids aren't going to learn that unless they make some pretty big mistakes, which could be pretty damaging.

    Monitor? Depends what you mean by monitor. Watching their every move over their shoulder? No thats a bad idea. Pop your head around the door every now and again and ask how its going - why not? Yes, that depends on having a culture of openess and honesty in your household and your kids feeling that they can trust you, but surely thats what you'd want? Of course kids lie to their parents from time to time (heck I lied so I could go to another country to meet someone off here when I was 15), but if they feel able to come to you in times of need they will. The only bit I do agree with is the age that should be allowed on social networking websites.

    I live in a sheltered world? I moved out when i was 15, was homeless for 2 years, i've spent over 18 months of my life addicted to hard drugs, living in a crack den of sort, i've watched a friend be murdered in cold blood, and my best friend being hit by a car and had to listen to my mother being raped. My sister and girlfriend being abused. I was bullied throughout school, beaten within an inch of my life most weeks, been set on fire, burnt, publicly humiliated, stabbed by groups of thugs just because i was different. I don't even know who my real dad is. That's just the start of it. So please tell me how i lived sheltered! (Although through the course of those things the safest i was was online, but enough about my life)

    I don't live a sheltered life I live a very toughened one, nothing much bothers me as such. Because of what i have been through.
    Please please don't make assumptions of people, if anything people should assume the way i am on this forum is because i haven't had a perfect life as you seem to think.

    Define what you mean by "black and white", I don't think in a linear fashion.

    I don't think people give children enough credit, for their intelligence, or understanding of this technological world around them.
    I did not have broadband, until i were but a man. Yet kids these days are born into the internet as such, they've not known things any difference, and this is where their awareness comes in.

    Teaching kids to be safe online is a sensible idea, but at what age and when? Is it useful? I remember most safety lessons in school about sex etc, to be hugely not useful at all - or just to be going over things we already knew. Or it was too late and we were already doing it.

    Just to give you an idea, 5 years ago when I was in year 10, I was made by my school and select few other people to be E-safety Ambassadors, we'd have to give assemblies and lessons to other students about how to be safe online and what not to do. I spent two years doing this, going off to various universities and meeting various computer related people to talk about E-safety. We also had a role, that if you were having trouble online, or being troubled, you could come to us for a chat about things and support.

    After doing that for so long, I realised - that no one cares, not from year 7 to 11, or the primary schools. Just no one had an interest in it, for whatever reason it is. Just teaching people to be safe is an upwards struggle. So I quit.
    E-safety people would laugh.

    You have to make mistakes to learn from them, it's very very true. How does a kid learn not to touch a cooker? They touch it. And they never do it again.

    What people really need to understand is we live in a horrible world, filled with nasty people, in nasty places, doing terrible things. And this will always happen, because we have freewill, It flabbergasts me when people think otherwise. It may not be what everyone wants as an ideal, and it doesn't mean you have to be one of them people. But it means inheritantly you're not safe anywhere. Like i said in my last post, the internet is exactly the same as the real world. You wouldn't start talking to an old man in the street, and give him all your names/address/phone numbers, so why would you do that online?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hmmm seriously regretting starting this thread now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Without making this a personal argument, for someone who has gone through so much Shikari, you can come across as fairly intolerant and unworldly.

    Black and white: right or wrong, no middle ground.

    I don't think its the subject but the way that kids are taught something that means they stop listening. If they are being preached at and have an adult-set agenda, or can't see the point (i.e. it would never happen to me mentality). I think it needs to be taught at all levels, as soon as kids use the internet and it needs to be age appropriate (you're not going to tell primary school kids not to post naked pics online, where as you might need to with secondary school kids). Kids don't only learn by their mistakes - they don't learn to cross roads properly only after getting knocked down by a car!

    If we teach kids to be scared of everything then we will only create a xenophobic society full of young people hateful of anyone that could be "dangerous", rather than cautious. We want children to grow to up to be adult who may talk to the old man on the street corner to find out he's actually half blind and waiting for someone to stop long enough to help him across the street and not a paedophile.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hmmm seriously regretting starting this thread now.

    Why?

    I hate facebook. When you're in my job and you see some of the things that could happen to people all you want to do is go back in time and make sure it wasn't invented. I spend a lot of time investigating online harassment and suspected grooming. We do what we can to educate kids in school on how to use it safely but it feels like punching waves some times.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hmmm seriously regretting starting this thread now.

    Claire, this is what the politics and debate forum is like. People are going to disagree, it's what the forums for, not everyone is going to wholeheartedly agree with that you said in your original post. ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Claire, this is what the politics and debate forum is like. People are going to disagree, it's what the forums for, not everyone is going to wholeheartedly agree with that you said in your original post. ;)

    :yes:

    Welcome to P&D! It's not a good thread unless someone throws their toys out of the pram! ;)

    And on the subject, I think it's right that FB has a 13+ policy, but I don't think it's possible or even reasonable to expect them to strictly enforce it. Younger kids should be taught about internet safety and monitored while online. It is not Facebook's responsibility to parent anyone's child!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm fairly sure that Facebook only has a 13+ policy because it allows them to more easily comply with various child protection laws. It relies on the users (or, more specifically, the users' parents in this case) to enforce such things.

    Realistically, if a child has access to the internet, then Facebook isn't going to be any worse than a load of other places.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hmmm seriously regretting starting this thread now.

    Don't worry about it, Politics and Debate is designed for arguments! And even if things are said that you don't like, they're not your fault :)

    Which actually taps into something important about Facebook; you can only control your own actions. I've seen stories recently of parents (admittedly probably kinda stupid ones) posting pictures of their kids in swimming costumes with no privacy settings attached and then finding out (via the police and some unpleasantness) that those photos have been shared by a paedophile ring.

    What if the same parent had posted the name of their child's school? Even just the town, if it's small enough and you know the child's name, is enough...

    I'm not saying we should wrap people up in cotton wool, but you wouldn't post your child's photo on a billboard in every town with the caption, "Fanny in her swimming costume on a break from her term at Rambsbottom Middle School, taken by Maggie May Smythe, who lives in Upper Ramsbottom"...

    There is a lot of ignorance about who can see what you post, people don't take the time to look into it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shikari wrote: »
    They'll learn how to be safe pretty quick, aslong as they don't meet up with people.

    I think that the point is your "as long as" is precisely why children need our support as they learn. We don't just open a garden gate and hope they have some sense of self awareness not to run out into the road.

    The only fears children are automatically born with are loud noises and falling. The rest is taught - either through experience or by parents. I'd rather teach my kids of the danger than let them find out by experiencing abuse for themselves.
    What I don't understand is that, no one ever explained rules to me for a computer, no one ever said don't do this, or that, or that's dangerous.

    Which is precisely why it became to tool for abusers.
    -Press Start
    -Shutdown
    Wait 30 seconds problem solved.
    If you're being bullied, delete it, ignore it, tell a parent, it's not rocket science...
    I'm someone's being an ass and threatening you, call the police 999 not rocket science is it?

    That's a pretty simplistic viewpoint which take no account of evidence surrounding abuse and relationships between abusers and their victims. You really need to consider your words carefully on a site like this. These comments can come across as suggesting that the victim only has themselves to blame.
    People forget that everything can happen in the real world, as it can online. There's almost no difference between the two, apart from ironically you're safer online.

    It's not a case that they "forget", it's as much that they just didn't know in the first place.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I started using the internet towards the end of primary school (late 90's/early 00s) but didn't start using it much until I was about 12/13 at senior school and got my first hotmail account. I used to use chatrooms for kids (when it was all about AOL) before that and wasn't allowed instant messaging for a while and didn't realise at the time but it was crawling with paedophiles. Several attempts were made to groom me over the years - luckily they didn't work but I talked to them anyway out of sheer morbid curiosity and amazement that men in their 20's up to their 60's wanted to talk to someone my age and I would just humour them. One did get very close to working and I almost met up with him when I was about 14 and he was 19 however I knew I had no way of dissapearing without being found out. On the other hand I began chatting to a guy when I was 11 and we kept in touch over the years, eventually met up when I was 14 in a public place with my family present and he became my first love and we dated on and off for over 4 years.

    My parents did talk to me about the dangers of the internet, though as it was as new to them as it was to me at the time I don't think they really understood how dangerous it actually was. Also the family computer was in it's own room so it was difficult to monitor what I was up to. Though my mum did go through my phone several times and went mental when I had swapped numbers with a man. Though luckily he never really made any attempts to groom me - but it was a weird friendship and I eventually ended it when I realised how mentally unstable he was.
    It was all too easy for people to get in touch with me. I was fortunate to not get sucked up in the ugly side of it but I understand how easily it happens. I can only imagine it being even easier now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Enjoying reading your replies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i didnt want my son having facebook till he was nearer 13 and had banned him from it, but his dad opened him an account without my knowledge last year when he was 11. I went ballistic but ive calmed down now, but i have his passwords and hes not allowed people to post on his wall without it being checked first, and people cant add him as friend. He has to add them. I keep an eye on it
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Enjoying reading your replies.

    That's the spirit :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah Helen :)

    Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Facebook has a lower age limit of 13 and all profiles under age of 18 have additional privacy settings but, having said that, facebook are not known for their openness policy so would recommend keeping up to date.

    Look, guys, if you want your young children to have an online presence why dont you just create a page? That way you can monitor the activity much more efficiently and they can post updates to that. Though personally I wouldn't.

    I run a site for survivors of internet sexual abuse and I can tell you that we, as a society, are failing young people by repeatedly offering the equivalent of stranger danger talks to them.

    "Dont give info out to strangers" - okay, but what about the boy ive been messaging for a few weeks..not a "stranger" to me any more?

    Secondly, what we need to be addressing is their understanding of what is okay in relationships. So many children are persuaded into doing things by being told this what good gf's do or what adults do or "if you loved me". They don't even recognise the abuse and manipulation

    Most internet predators take the time to groom children. This means they will move through the ranks from stranger to closest confidant. And, they can/will systematically isolate your child from their friends, family and any outside influences. The more isolated your child is the more vulnerable they are.

    Making child feel the abuser is only one to understand them. The only one who will love them.


    Another thing to remember is that ALL children and teenagers are vulnerable to this abuse. In fact, the most vulnerable age bracket is from 12 to 16. Teenagers are socially awkward, want to fit in and want to be treated like adults. The perfect mix for a predator willing to offer them love, acceptance and treat them like an equal (at least seemingly to the child)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wanted to address something that was mentioned earlier on as it is quite a common myth/belief

    "why dont people just exit the conversation"

    Some children with strong boundaries and sense of self will be able to. They will feel able to stand up to adults and have a sense of autonomy. In the exception of predators that are directly threatening.

    However, other children will comply more readily. They wont feel able to disobey an adult or will worry about hurting their new friend's feelings. And a whole other host of reasons.

    The point I am making is that it is never the child's fault. Even when that child is 15 and rebelling against their parents or other authority figure. It is a child/teen's propensity to act emotionally rather than more rationally that makes them more vulnerable. It is the adults around them that should act responsibly and respectfully..not manipulate that vulnerability for their own purpose.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    TaraS wrote: »
    Look, guys, if you want your young children to have an online presence why dont you just create a page? That way you can monitor the activity much more efficiently and they can post updates to that. Though personally I wouldn't.

    Several reasons for me. Its facebook he wants, and facebook that his friends have. Im not over the moon about it but ive been kind of railroaded into it, and with my restrictions and regular checking on his page, plus limits on when he can use it, its not turned out to be as bad as i thought.
    Im "reasonably" knowledgeable about internet safety and would come down like a tonne of bricks on anything inappropriate
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My kids ages 13,12 and 6 have their own Facebook account. Facebook has allowed kids below 13 to create their account but it's linked to their parents' email account. All activities in FB can be monitored because notifications are sent to our email. I made sure that I set the Privacy settings and nothing can be posted in the Timeline without prior approval.
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