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Fake v Fair

**helen****helen** Deactivated Posts: 9,235 Supreme Poster
What do we think about fake tan people?

Hannah has definitely decided...

http://www.thesite.org/community/reallife/rants/fakevsfair

Whatcha think?

:)
«13

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wouldn't say it's stupid, but I don't understand it. Most people look better as they are, there's no need for fake tan. If people want to make themselves look different, stick to make-up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think it's reasonable to draw parallels between a white person wanting to look more tanned and a black person bleaching their skin. Didn't read any further than that due to fury.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I don't think it's reasonable to draw parallels between a white person wanting to look more tanned and a black person bleaching their skin. Didn't read any further than that due to fury.

    I can't see that bit? *is probably going blind*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't see that bit? *is probably going blind*

    It's like the 4th paragraph down, the one that begins with 'when I question people about why they fake tan...'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Para 4, so ignorant I'm not even going to continue to read and respond to the article. My fave critical thinkers are people like bell hooks, who I would recommend you read.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The bit about Michael Jackson? I took that as a bit of a dig at his plastic surgery (which, granted, was still an attempt to hide his origins), rather than bleaching his skin? Didn't he have vitiligo? (Wiki tells me yes)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A black person who bleaches their skin is still a black person, and suffers the negative consequences for being so. People of colour black/asian/others do submit themselves to dangerous chemicals in order to lighten their skin as their is a cast system alive and kicking in England, let alone elsewhere. To draw comparrision s betweena white person getting a tan and a black person going through an horendous process to lighten thier skin by a tone or two sickens me. The white person will have white priviledge whether tanned or not; the black person will suffer fro being black, the skin lightnede black person will suffer the persoanl degredation of denying their natural beauty that is not acknowledged in this Western powered world and a whole heap of other 'persoanl as poilitical' reasons that makes this one jounalists 'quip' hugely ignorant and offensive.

    Hae you ever been or lived within a community of non white people who want to ligthen thier skin? Thought about the social power that has caused them to wan tto? Considered the health and self-esttem issue that go alongside this> Well I have. And on the bassi of my experience as intelligence I find it disgusting an dlazy journalism that a reference to MJ lightening his skin (for medical or other reasons) to be flippant and not weel thought through. THAT MAKES ME MAD.

    Ever met a girl who's sat in bleach baths for hours/days/weeks, recieved taunts from her own and external communities for the depth of brown in her skin? Contrast that with the acceptability of hues of white and where the power in this society lies( in any hue of white) and you mihg ttouch upon the distaste I feel.

    idealistically I'd like ot give her a lecture (in the educational rather than reprimanding sense) on what utter utter bollox the inclusion of MJ lightening his skin, within this article is.

    That's it. I'm out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I could have written a better thought out response to this but I can't right now as I am both furious and inebriated. Might return to it and explain myself bettter. Though, my instinct isto just leave an incendiary response and leave the 'white priveledge' denyers to chat it out amongst them selves hilst I do more positive actioned things like join celbrations that embrace castsw ithin colours and fuck the white people who want to just get a quick quip in by mentioning Micheal Jackson. Good luck to them and beware that I want to teach them better by fucking them over. Yeah- mind of a rioter with too much to lose so I will, on occassion, fight agianst fire foes with water.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Katralla, lovely, I wasn't disagreeing with you, just that that's not how I read it. I do see how and why you did read it that way and I absolutely 100% agree with your assessment of it in that context.

    Breathe, lovely. :heart:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, it's a pretty bobbins article which seems to be about placating the cognitive dissonance she feels when attempting to justify her own prejudices. Her bid to add weight to her argument by incorrectly drawing parallels between make-up and MJ is a poopy nugget on top of a poopy pie.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didnt read into it politically as much as katralla, although i agree with that on a deeper level, but fucking hell, who cares if white people want a tan, or whether they like being pale. Noones forcing anyone to have tans.
    She says its not the same as wearing makeup. Of course it fucking is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think hannah is looking into it too much. it's down to personal preference. i prefer the pale look myself and apart from it looking slightly excessive on some people, it just seems like far too much effort.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree that it could have been better written but I think that there is a reasonable point in the article. GWST gets an incredible amount of abuse from random strangers for her natural skin colour - incredibly pale with a smattering of freckles. Obviously I don't know if she would get more abuse for having say, asian or black skin but I think the sheer fact that her skin tone is seen as something to criticise makes it a valid comparison.

    I get the point you're making Katralla but I didn't read the same political argument in the article that you obviously have done. If I thought for one moment that it was drawing comparisons with the deeper cultural implications of having a particular skin colour I would agree with you wholeheartedly. However, the idea that an individual can be made to feel ashamed of their natural skin (no matter what shade that may be) isn't restricted to one particular race. And it's wrong in every instance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree that it's wrong in every instance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what do people say to GWST?? i know loads of very pale people and its not ever an issue to anyone. Its common round here. Maybe its less common up north cos they love to fake tan so much in general?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    GWST gets an incredible amount of abuse from random strangers for her natural skin colour - incredibly pale with a smattering of freckles. Obviously I don't know if she would get more abuse for having say, asian or black skin but I think the sheer fact that her skin tone is seen as something to criticise makes it a valid comparison.

    I think there tend to be two main taboos when talking to people about their physical features. The first is obviously that you don't want to appear prejudiced in any way. But the second is the assumption that someone mustn't be happy with that particular feature. I think even despite the tanning culture, being pale is still not really seen as a negative thing, or there would be a taboo about talking about it. It's for the same reason that a tall person is massively more likely to have their height mentioned to them than a short person. A thin person is more likely to receive jokes about their weight than a fat person.

    As for the skin whitening comment, I think it's difficult to draw a comparison in the racially, historically and socially-charged context of the UK or India. But these products are pretty widespread in Vietnam (and I assume other nearby countries). And they're not some dangerous procedure with dodgy chemicals (though I'm sure that's available too), they're just a label on your normal shower gel or moisturiser saying that it's skin whitening. Whether it works or not, I don't know, but the key point is that they obviously sell. And while they're might be a hint of social status in this (i.e. white skin = comfortable middle-class person, dark skin = farmer), I don't think it's any stronger than the equivalent in the UK of associating tanned skin with exotic holidays and lots of free time.

    The simple truth is that (almost exclusively) women buy these things because they think it makes them look better. And it's easy to come up with vast social theories about why this might be, but I think the simple answer is because that it what is presented to them as beautiful by the industry. It is in their interest to make people feel inadequate, and in countries where most people have light skin, telling them they need darker skin is how you do this. In countries where people have darker skin, trying to make it lighter becomes the goal. And the social associations that go along with this are merely a product of aspirational marketing. Associating pale skin in Asia or tanned skin in Northern Europe with a comfortable middle-class lifestyle is no different from associating an expensive car with a comfortable middle-class lifestyle. All of it is about exploiting people's insecurities about social status (amongst other things) in order to sell them a product to "fix" them.

    I think the wider racial questions are something of a red herring in this respect, and I don't think that the majority of people who buy skin whitening cream worldwide are doing so in an effort to look white, in the same way that black people used to try to make their hair the same as white people's (based purely on watching Malcolm X, btw :D).
  • **helen****helen** Deactivated Posts: 9,235 Supreme Poster
    When I showed this thread to my manager (El Gringo) He said: "so what's the history" e.g. what has Hannah ever done to deserve such vile comments as the one's I've just deleted.

    Answer - absolutely nothing. Shockingly unkind posts from people I admire so much. Clearly alcohol had a part to play here, but it's more than that because I don't see any attempt to self-edit at all.

    If you believe you know better than someone else on a topic, then prove it by posting an informed response in reply, not by assuming that they are an inferior person and that taking a shallow swipe at them is a productive way to to encourage a community of young people to open their minds to alternative ideas.

    Criticism of a journalist's work - absolutely fine
    Unkind, personal, criticism of a young woman who is trying to find her place in the world - not on TheSite.org thankyouverymuch.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    you say that as if its the first time youve been on these boards :cool:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    **helen** wrote: »
    When I showed this thread to my manager (El Gringo) He said: "so what's the history" e.g. what has Hannah ever done to deserve such vile comments as the one's I've just deleted.

    Answer - absolutely nothing. Shockingly unkind posts from people I admire so much. Clearly alcohol had a part to play here, but it's more than that because I don't see any attempt to self-edit at all.

    If you believe you know better than someone else on a topic, then prove it by posting an informed response in reply, not by assuming that they are an inferior person and that taking a shallow swipe at them is a productive way to to encourage a community of young people to open their minds to alternative ideas.

    Criticism of a journalist's work - absolutely fine
    Unkind, personal, criticism of a young woman who is trying to find her place in the world - not on TheSite.org thankyouverymuch.

    Yay for this post.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Easy for you to say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if you post a rant on a public place, youre going to get opinions on it. Some stronger than others. Especially somewhere like here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Her whole article is ridiculous and pointless. Some people like to be be pale, some like to be tanned, and some like to be orange. I wear fake tan because otherwise I look tired and ill, not because 'I'm more confident when I'm not myself.'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some people use fake tan because it gives them confidence, or because they don't like themselves the way they are. The article isn't even that bad..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some people use fake tan because it gives them confidence, or because they don't like themselves the way they are. The article isn't even that bad..

    It gives them confidence because they think they look nicer. Same as nice, well fitting clothes or a hairstyle makes you confident. The article IS that bad because it's pointless (because fake tan is makeup. It's nothing special. I doubt anyone would write an article on the pros and cons of mascara.) as well as offensive for throwing in the MJ thing. Whether the author meant that as a he wasn't happy the way he looked thing, or as a going from being black to being white is the same as wearing fake tan thing isn't the point, it's still offensive.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    I think she was aiming at the people who dare not go out of the house without having applied masses of it.

    But who cares? PEOPLE WEAR FAKE TAN BECAUSE THEY THINK IT MAKES THEM LOOK BETTER. Whether it's a little or a lot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I personally think that Hannah is quite lovely.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    grace wrote: »
    It gives them confidence because they think they look nicer. Same as nice, well fitting clothes or a hairstyle makes you confident. The article IS that bad because it's pointless (because fake tan is makeup. It's nothing special. I doubt anyone would write an article on the pros and cons of mascara.) as well as offensive for throwing in the MJ thing. Whether the author meant that as a he wasn't happy the way he looked thing, or as a going from being black to being white is the same as wearing fake tan thing isn't the point, it's still offensive.

    People write articles on many things. It's not offensive, not really. You've made your point, just let it go.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't the point here that whilst it is fair to state your own opinion, it is a bit unfair to judge her as a person for holding an opinion different to yours?

    Just because she thinks something different - doesn't mean she is stupid or whatever and she doesn't really deserve some of the mean comments. Strong opinions and also harsh criticism of her work should be acceptable, but not just plain bitchyness targeted at her. She may have meant the Michael Jackson thing in a different way, even if it wasn't necessarily appropriate, I doubt she meant it to be offensive.

    To be honest this is what puts me off writing rants, or discussing things at depth in P&D. I'm well aware that I don't know everything, and there will always be someone that knows more about something than me.... but I'm worried that as soon as I say something that is just a little bit wrong, or something that can be interpreted in the wrong way people will jump on me personally for it. And this is kind of what has happened here.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    never seems to put me off ranting.
    Not sure if thats a good thing or not, but as long as youre prepared to listen to the other side, and keep an open mind to having your opinions changed and admitting to it, then i dont see the problem
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if id started a rant about how people who dye their hair are vain cunts and self absorbed, itd probably go down like a lead zeppelin too
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