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Due for Crown Court 12th July! - Advice...

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Hey all,

Last year october, me and 1 friend went down to Hertfordshire to visit a friend at Uni. 3 of us and a friend of our uni friend also decided to go out.

At the end of the club, 3 girls came up to us, 1girl(g1) was overly interested in my uni friend but 1girl(g2) of her friends didn't like the idea of her friend getting to friendly. They were under the influence of alcholo and so were we but not as much as those girls.

We exchange a lot of abusive words but we decided to jump into the cab. (g2) was still giving it the mouth but my uni friend asked if I could help him get (g1) number as I was closes to the door. I got out but was interrupted but (g2), she got a hold of my necklace and broke it. I picked it up and as I came up, she grabbed my cheeks and forced my head to my left. As I came up, my forehead connected her nose.

She had a broken nose and pressed charges on me. I am due for Crown Court for Monday 12th July and I'm so scared what will happen to me.

I pleded not gulity and it was accidental. She has a bus driving as a witness and he claims I headbutted her.

This is my first offence and I've never gotten in trouble before. I'm also 20 years of age.

Help all :crying: :crying:
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bestadvice anyone on here can give you is as follows:

    speak to a fully qualified solictor.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh my that must be tough for you.

    Well I would also suggest what avizandum had suggested to get a fully qualified layer, and to talk honestly at all times.

    Tell us how it goes,
    May god wish you all the very best!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah I am with a qualified solictor but they're not sure either. As it's GBH, it could be 5 years imprisonment to a slap on the wrist and court fines.

    I was wondering if anyone on here would have gone through something similar...

    I'm so scared. I've only just got career path sorted but I may lose everything by the time Monday 12th comes by...=(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All I can say know it good luck.

    And I'm sure you will not loose your career path.

    Good luck,

    xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The worst thing is, my parents don't have a slight idea on whats going on. If I'm sentence on Monday, I'd be gone on Monday. They will be so shocked and my mum will be in tears.

    I feel alone on this. Only a few of my friends know and my gf.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    m q l wrote: »
    The worst thing is, my parents don't have a slight idea on whats going on. If I'm sentence on Monday, I'd be gone on Monday. They will be so shocked and my mum will be in tears.

    I feel alone on this. Only a few of my friends know and my gf.

    you need to tell them whats going on. i had to go to court for a driving offence and appealed it. everyone we'd spoken to said it was a given dont worry and i was convicted and whatever. nothing half as serious but i know whats it like to have the worry of going to court.

    make sure you've proper representation. they are the ones who will be asking you the questions and making sure you're treated alright.

    if you are convicted (hopes you arent obv) you can appeal it. its waht i did when i was convicted. i won my appeal and the previously conviction never happened. its like i was never convicted in the first place. but obv you will suffer before it sorted.

    im a student and start a placement and if i'd lost my appeal i would have be fired from my placement. you need to tell them whats going on. they might support you.

    hope it goes well.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    kirsty06 wrote: »
    you need to tell them whats going on. i had to go to court for a driving offence and appealed it. everyone we'd spoken to said it was a given dont worry and i was convicted and whatever. nothing half as serious but i know whats it like to have the worry of going to court.

    make sure you've proper representation. they are the ones who will be asking you the questions and making sure you're treated alright.

    if you are convicted (hopes you arent obv) you can appeal it. its waht i did when i was convicted. i won my appeal and the previously conviction never happened. its like i was never convicted in the first place. but obv you will suffer before it sorted.

    im a student and start a placement and if i'd lost my appeal i would have be fired from my placement. you need to tell them whats going on. they might support you.

    hope it goes well.

    Thank you ever so much with so much information.

    Do you appeal straight after court (If I get convicted)? Would my barrister inform me the option of appealing?

    So does that mean you dont have any records of your offence??
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    m q l wrote: »
    Thank you ever so much with so much information.

    Do you appeal straight after court (If I get convicted)? Would my barrister inform me the option of appealing?

    So does that mean you dont have any records of your offence??

    basically once youve said your pieces etc the judge and magistrates will leave and decide. they will come back and you will get told the outcome. if you dont agree you can speak to the court clerk or the advisor to the clerk and the will give you an appeal form. all you do is fill in the form and send it off within a certain time period and then they will issue a new summons on the appeal.

    if you lose you will have to pay the fine regardless of whether you appeal or not. if you win your appeal you will be given you fines back but takes ages.

    ye i told my employer that i had got to appeal it and won so it was as if i was never convicted in the first place but they kept the information on record just in case.

    you barrister should meet you before your court case. you dont get seen straight away they have a few cases thet are told will start at certain time and they just go through them one by one so you barrister should meet you before you go in and go over your defense and options with you.

    hope this eases your mind a bit
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    kirsty06 wrote: »
    basically once youve said your pieces etc the judge and magistrates will leave and decide. they will come back and you will get told the outcome. if you dont agree you can speak to the court clerk or the advisor to the clerk and the will give you an appeal form. all you do is fill in the form and send it off within a certain time period and then they will issue a new summons on the appeal.

    if you lose you will have to pay the fine regardless of whether you appeal or not. if you win your appeal you will be given you fines back but takes ages.

    ye i told my employer that i had got to appeal it and won so it was as if i was never convicted in the first place but they kept the information on record just in case.

    you barrister should meet you before your court case. you dont get seen straight away they have a few cases thet are told will start at certain time and they just go through them one by one so you barrister should meet you before you go in and go over your defense and options with you.

    hope this eases your mind a bit

    It most certainly did kirsty06!

    I guess I'll have to wait for Monday then...

    Hopefully I will be back on this forum to reply after the 12th :nervous: ...:crying:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    kirsty06 wrote: »
    basically once youve said your pieces etc the judge and magistrates will leave and decide. they will come back and you will get told the outcome. if you dont agree you can speak to the court clerk or the advisor to the clerk and the will give you an appeal form. all you do is fill in the form and send it off within a certain time period and then they will issue a new summons on the appeal.

    if you lose you will have to pay the fine regardless of whether you appeal or not. if you win your appeal you will be given you fines back but takes ages.

    ye i told my employer that i had got to appeal it and won so it was as if i was never convicted in the first place but they kept the information on record just in case.

    you barrister should meet you before your court case. you dont get seen straight away they have a few cases thet are told will start at certain time and they just go through them one by one so you barrister should meet you before you go in and go over your defense and options with you.

    hope this eases your mind a bit

    The above is not strictly true. In the Crown Court a jury of 12 will decide upon the facts (i.e. is the defendant guilty or not guilty). The judge will be legally qualified (unlike in the Magistrates' Court) and will deal with sentencing and points of law. The penalties available are much more severe than in the Magistrates' Court. You will need to instruct Counsel (Barristers) through your solicitor unless the solicitor you have has rights of audience in the Crown Court.

    Criminal procedure differs between The Magistrates' Court and the Crown Court due to the fact the latter deals with more serious cases at first instance (i.e. trial). So, information relating to the Magistrate's Court may not be accurate. The case is also likely to last longer if heard in the Crown Court due to the extra administrative matters such as empanelling a jury.

    This is a very serious matter indeed. You really should inform those around you and it is imperative that you have adequate representation. Your solicitor should already have informed you of all this and you should also have already met your Barrister. Cases going to the Crown Court require more preparation work so it is unlikely that the first time you meet your Barrister will be on the day of the trial. They will want to meet you, get to know you, take statements from you and also seek witnesses (both those who can speak about the incident and those who can speak of your character).

    Is it a section 18 or section 20 offence you have been charged with? It should detail it on the Indictment, which if you are going to the Crown Court, you should have been served a copy of by now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Avizandum wrote: »
    The above is not strictly true. In the Crown Court a jury of 12 will decide upon the facts (i.e. is the defendant guilty or not guilty). The judge will be legally qualified (unlike in the Magistrates' Court) and will deal with sentencing and points of law. The penalties available are much more severe than in the Magistrates' Court. You will need to instruct Counsel (Barristers) through your solicitor unless the solicitor you have has rights of audience in the Crown Court.

    Criminal procedure differs between The Magistrates' Court and the Crown Court due to the fact the latter deals with more serious cases at first instance (i.e. trial). So, information relating to the Magistrate's Court may not be accurate. The case is also likely to last longer if heard in the Crown Court due to the extra administrative matters such as empanelling a jury.

    This is a very serious matter indeed. You really should inform those around you and it is imperative that you have adequate representation. Your solicitor should already have informed you of all this and you should also have already met your Barrister. Cases going to the Crown Court require more preparation work so it is unlikely that the first time you meet your Barrister will be on the day of the trial. They will want to meet you, get to know you, take statements from you and also seek witnesses (both those who can speak about the incident and those who can speak of your character).

    Is it a section 18 or section 20 offence you have been charged with? It should detail it on the Indictment, which if you are going to the Crown Court, you should have been served a copy of by now.

    Hello Avizandum,

    You have stated so much detail, do you work for the Law?

    I have been charged with section 20 gbh without intent.

    Yes, I have met my barrister roughly 2weeks from today.

    My first trial is on Monday 12th, is it possible to finish on Monday? That they come to a decision on Monday 12th?

    Because I think the build-up and all the waiting is probably the worst part of it. I feel so emotional & unhappy for something I didn't intend to do and may go down for it :crying:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you should tell your family.

    That's what they're there for, helping you through tough times. They can help ensure you are properly represented etc. and help you work through everything.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I think you should tell your family.

    That's what they're there for, helping you through tough times. They can help ensure you are properly represented etc. and help you work through everything.

    I should have from the start but now it's just too late.

    Hopefully Monday 12th goes well and I wouldn't need to bring up the subject ever again :nervous:


    Does anyone know if my case could be done on the 12th? Or would I be going to a few of these trials??
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If your trial is due to begin on Monday (ie it's not a preliminary hearing) then the trial could finish on Monday, but is likley to go over to the Tuesday. Depending on how long it takes them to empanel a jury and complete other administrative tasks your trial may not beging untiil early afternoon and one cannot put a time scale on how long it will take a jury to reach a verdict. If you are convicted, sentencing is likley to be deferred for reports and may not actually happen for a few weeks after. You may be on bail or if the judge is considering a custodial sentence they may remand you until the date of your sentencing.

    You really should tell your family etc. as there is a possibility of a custodial sentence depnding on the full circumstances around the alleged incident and the results of any reports sought upon conviction. Also it is highly likley that this is not going to be over with on Monday. Then if you manage to avoid prison a high-end community sentence is likley and that could run to as many as 300 hours and as it is for a violent offence will be outdoors and heavily supervised. What if youre family see you when you're out doing community service. Don't you think they'd rather find out from you than see you in a bright orange vest doing community work? You could, of course, get a fine or some other sentence. However, the CPS have decided that this is sufficiently serious enough to warrant trial in the Crown Court (a s.20 charge being an either way offence, that is, can either be tried in the Magistrate's Court or the Crown Court). The maximum sentence for a s.20 is five years inprisonment. Maximums are only given in extremis and the sentencing guidelines will place normal sentences far below the maximum. However, this should give you an idea of the seriousness of the charge you are facing.

    I don't mean to scare you or anything, but there is little point in not being realistic. This is not some minor traffic offence we're talking about here. GBH is a serious offence and with it being tried in the Crown Court the judge will have the widest range of options available for sentencing the offence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good luck tomorrow. hope it goes well!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    kirsty06 wrote: »
    Good luck tomorrow. hope it goes well!

    Yes. Good luck indeed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Avizandum wrote: »
    If your trial is due to begin on Monday (ie it's not a preliminary hearing) then the trial could finish on Monday, but is likley to go over to the Tuesday. Depending on how long it takes them to empanel a jury and complete other administrative tasks your trial may not beging untiil early afternoon and one cannot put a time scale on how long it will take a jury to reach a verdict. If you are convicted, sentencing is likley to be deferred for reports and may not actually happen for a few weeks after. You may be on bail or if the judge is considering a custodial sentence they may remand you until the date of your sentencing.

    You really should tell your family etc. as there is a possibility of a custodial sentence depnding on the full circumstances around the alleged incident and the results of any reports sought upon conviction. Also it is highly likley that this is not going to be over with on Monday. Then if you manage to avoid prison a high-end community sentence is likley and that could run to as many as 300 hours and as it is for a violent offence will be outdoors and heavily supervised. What if youre family see you when you're out doing community service. Don't you think they'd rather find out from you than see you in a bright orange vest doing community work? You could, of course, get a fine or some other sentence. However, the CPS have decided that this is sufficiently serious enough to warrant trial in the Crown Court (a s.20 charge being an either way offence, that is, can either be tried in the Magistrate's Court or the Crown Court). The maximum sentence for a s.20 is five years inprisonment. Maximums are only given in extremis and the sentencing guidelines will place normal sentences far below the maximum. However, this should give you an idea of the seriousness of the charge you are facing.

    I don't mean to scare you or anything, but there is little point in not being realistic. This is not some minor traffic offence we're talking about here. GBH is a serious offence and with it being tried in the Crown Court the judge will have the widest range of options available for sentencing the offence.

    Hey,

    Today they chose the jury and brang out the complaintant/plaintiff to question her about the incident. As my case was dragged on from 10am till 4:30pm in the afternoon! I have to go back tomorrow, and they also mentioned that this case may last through to wednesday (the latest).

    If found guilty, do I have to pay for court fees? and any other fees? And if found not-guilty, what happens...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    @ Kristy06 - Thanks a bunch, will need it for Tuesday and Wednesday.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You should have legal aid to cover your solicitor's and barrister's fees. Normal court day is 10 - 4:30 so it's probably going to be the same again tomorrow. If they've set the case down for three days it shouldn't last longer, unless something happens (protracted legal arguments, jury taking longer than expected to reach a decision, witness on the stand for longer than expected and many other things).

    If you're found not guilty you can walk away from Court on the day as an innocent person as if it never happened and you'll never have to speak about the incident again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    how'd it go yesterday?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Avizandum wrote: »
    You should have legal aid to cover your solicitor's and barrister's fees. Normal court day is 10 - 4:30 so it's probably going to be the same again tomorrow. If they've set the case down for three days it shouldn't last longer, unless something happens (protracted legal arguments, jury taking longer than expected to reach a decision, witness on the stand for longer than expected and many other things).

    If you're found not guilty you can walk away from Court on the day as an innocent person as if it never happened and you'll never have to speak about the incident again.


    Back again today. So much stress and feeling very unhappy. Today my barrister informed the jury & judge about my education qualification and previous work-history. He also mentioned what my plans were for the future (which is to become a member of the london firebrigade), would the jury and judge reflect on this??

    My case should be the last of it tomorrow (Wednesday). Yes, I have legal aid which covers me but would I need to pay any court fees??

    kirsty06 wrote: »
    how'd it go yesterday?

    Yesterday was normal, was in defendant seat listening to the complainants evidence as well as her witnesses.

    Today was the same, but now it is my turn to give evidence and my fellow witness.

    Tomorrow should be the last day as well as the outcome/result.. (Hopefully they see the truth :crying:)


    I just want to say thank-you for those to have given me a reply and shown their support. Wish me luck all :nervous:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Has the barrister given you any indication as to whether he/she thinks you will be found guilty?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are usually no court fees in crminal cases other than those of your solicitor and barrister so your legal aid will cover everything.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Has the barrister given you any indication as to whether he/she thinks you will be found guilty?

    Not really. I should ask him. But it'd be too late now, I'm due tomorrow and sure looks like it will end tomorrow.

    Avizandum wrote: »
    There are usually no court fees in crminal cases other than those of your solicitor and barrister so your legal aid will cover everything.

    Avizandum you've been a great help! And so has the rest :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    m q l wrote: »
    Not really. I should ask him. But it'd be too late now, I'm due tomorrow and sure looks like it will end tomorrow


    Avizandum you've been a great help! And so has the rest :)

    Don't forget that the trial may conclude tomorrow, but if you're found guilty you will probably have to go back to court in a few weeks for sentencing.

    No problem and I hope it goes well for you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Avizandum wrote: »
    Don't forget that the trial may conclude tomorrow, but if you're found guilty you will probably have to go back to court in a few weeks for sentencing.

    No problem and I hope it goes well for you.

    Hey all,

    I found out the outcome today, I have been found 'guilty' for section.20 gbh :no: :(

    Jury clearly didn't believe a word i've said and for some reason I feel as if they decided on a quick note because they didnt want to come in a further 4th day as they had 1 hour left of the day to come up with a decision.

    Do you know if I can appeal? I remember reading somewhere that I can appeal for abh and not gbh? Or appeal for anything else?

    I'm back at court next month for sentencing :crying:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Once you have been sentenced you will be able to appeal. You can appeal against conviction and/or sentence. Your solicitor is best placed to advise you on this point.

    What date are you up for sentencing and has your solicitor or barrister given an indication of possible sentence? The maximum sentence (as mentioned earlier) is a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years. However, the maximum senetence will only apply in extremis and the sentencing guidelines place the normal range far below this.

    The sentence passed will depend on the circumstances surrounding the case, the information contained within teh pre-sentence reoprts that I'm sure the judge will have asked for and the mitigation put forward by defence counsel. You could be facing a custodial sentence, so if you haven't already, you really should tell those around you. Also, as you pelaed Not Guilty and were convicted the judge may come down harder on you than if you had entered a plea of guilty.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok so it's possible to appeal against the conviction? so gbh, bring it down to abh?

    Yeah my barrister has informed me he would not be very surprised if the judge give me an imprisonment sentence as I am of good character and have never been in trouble with the police before.

    He also informed me that to help me stay out of prison, I could help myself by getting a job and suggesting to pay compensation to the complainant (between £500 - £750)..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you appeal against your conviction and are successful it is as if you were never convicted in the first place.

    As this is your first offence and you are of good character you could probably expect a high level community sentence (community service close to the 300 hour max) or maybe a suspended prison sentence. I suspect that a fine on its own will not be an option the judge is considering (but then again, sentence is a matter for the presiding judge alone so one really shouldn't speculate too much).

    You will probably be assessed for your potential to reoffend and this will be taken into consideration also. Having a job or a place on a college course or training programme would go in your favour.

    However, you have been convicted of a serious violent offence (granted not as serious as a section 18, GBH with intent or murder, but serious none-the-less) in the Crown Court and should be expecting a sentence to reflect that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    m q l wrote: »
    Hey all,

    I found out the outcome today, I have been found 'guilty' for section.20 gbh :no: :(

    Jury clearly didn't believe a word i've said and for some reason I feel as if they decided on a quick note because they didnt want to come in a further 4th day as they had 1 hour left of the day to come up with a decision.

    Do you know if I can appeal? I remember reading somewhere that I can appeal for abh and not gbh? Or appeal for anything else?

    I'm back at court next month for sentencing :crying:

    sorry to hear that outcome.:no: Not cool! that sucks. you can appeal its your right. speak to you solicitor and see what they say is the best move. hope it goes better if you do appeal!
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