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UK prisons full - now where to put them?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I'm surprised noone else has mentioned it really, I was just wondering what does everyone think about this?

Story.

It looks like they will shove them in the police cells for the time being til they figure out what to do, but what are the options? Does this news mean the prison system isn't working, or just that we need to build more prisons? I agree with the idea that we should deport all the foreigners in our jails back to their countries because we have enough on our plate, but apart from that I'm not sure what can be done.....(let all the stoners free?)

What I think will happen is they will tag the less serious offenders and release them, I can't say I'm particularly comfortable with this idea but I don't see many other options.......the whole situation is just typical of crap reactive government, looking at the rising number of incarcerations it was obvious a long time ago this would happen, but they've done fuck all and now they're like 'oh, shit, we're full up'........sheer incompetence.

but anyways, the main point i was leading to is that this would be a great time to stage a 'legalise cannabis' march and have a blaze/protest outside the houses of parliament.........what are they gonna do, lock you up? :p
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hey, maybe we should address the underlying causes of crime? Just a thought, like.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Hey, maybe we should address the underlying causes of crime? Just a thought, like.

    Nah fuck that, send them all to gitmo! :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Hey, maybe we should address the underlying causes of crime? Just a thought, like.

    lol don't be daft blagsta. the solution is obvious - cut welfare!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let out all the people who don't need to be in jail, the ones that are in there for not paying fines, or drink driving, or fraud or anything that doesn't make them a threat to other peoples safety.

    I'm not saying let them off but these people would be far more use to everyone out of jail, working and paying tax (rather than costing me money) and spending all their free time doing community service.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Every single last person in jail for possession of drugs should be freed. Some those done for supplying could be let go too, depending on each set of circumstances.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Possesion fine, I'm a little less sure about letting the suppliers go....

    The one's done for possesion should be put through rehab, not jail. Too many of my mums patients had a slight drug problem when they went into jail, and now they are there have a massive one. Jail is not the place to put drug addicts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    An easier thing to do would just be legalising drugs.
    More help to abused children
    More money to areas/families who are far below the poverty line
    Stricter mental health provisions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    With the instigation of the "Tough Choices" programme in April of this year, the criminal justice system is a lot more involved in drug treatment. If you are arrested for a "trigger offence", (e.g. possession, robbery, theft, burglary, begging etc), you have to have a compulsory drug test. If you test +ve for heroin or cocaine, you then have to be assessed by a drug worker. Failure to take the test or to engage in the assessment is now a criminal offence in itself, regardless of whether you are charged with the original offence. You can now have a restriction put on your bail (a Restriction on Bail or ROB), which might require you to attend a drug service while on bail (remember this is only if you are arrested for a triger offence and then test +ve for heroin or coke) once a week until your court appearance. You can be assigned a Drug Intervention Programme (DIP) worker to oversee your treatment/engagement. If found guilty at court, you can be given a Drug Rehabiliation Requirement (DRR), which replace the previous Drug Treatment and Testing Order (DTTO). A DRR might require you to attend a drug treatment service a couple of times a week and be drug tested or it might require you to go to residential rehab.
    Of course this is all contingent on the funding being available for rehab - the borough I work in has already run out of funding for rehabs precisely because they have been making more people go to rehab on court orders...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let out all the people who don't need to be in jail, the ones that are in there for not paying fines, or drink driving, or fraud or anything that doesn't make them a threat to other peoples safety.

    I'm not saying let them off but these people would be far more use to everyone out of jail, working and paying tax (rather than costing me money) and spending all their free time doing community service.

    Definitely, I agree with you there.

    These sorts of people aren't a DIRECT danger to us, well, not as much as the people who actually deserve to be locked up such as murderers, rapists etc.
    I don't honestly think community service does all that much - plenty of them just re offend anyways.

    Was on This Morning the other day, that there's this one guy who re offends roughly around this time so he can spend the winter in jail. He plans to do some criminal offence so he's locked up, then the sentence is finished round about summer time, and he's set free. Apparently he's been doing it for a few years. Just ridiculous really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Most people reoffend because they can't get the same opportunities once they are released, mainly job discrimination even if they are totally rehabilitated.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    With the instigation of the "Tough Choices" programme in April of this year, the criminal justice system is a lot more involved in drug treatment. If you are arrested for a "trigger offence", (e.g. possession, robbery, theft, burglary, begging etc), you have to have a compulsory drug test. If you test +ve for heroin or cocaine, you then have to be assessed by a drug worker. Failure to take the test or to engage in the assessment is now a criminal offence in itself, regardless of whether you are charged with the original offence. You can now have a restriction put on your bail (a Restriction on Bail or ROB), which might require you to attend a drug service while on bail (remember this is only if you are arrested for a triger offence and then test +ve for heroin or coke) once a week until your court appearance. You can be assigned a Drug Intervention Programme (DIP) worker to oversee your treatment/engagement. If found guilty at court, you can be given a Drug Rehabiliation Requirement (DRR), which replace the previous Drug Treatment and Testing Order (DTTO). A DRR might require you to attend a drug treatment service a couple of times a week and be drug tested or it might require you to go to residential rehab.
    Of course this is all contingent on the funding being available for rehab - the borough I work in has already run out of funding for rehabs precisely because they have been making more people go to rehab on court orders...

    This might actually be an alright idea (although its a blunt and clumsy way of dealing with the issue) if there was anywhere near the funding needed available for treatment.

    On the broader point, putting heroin on script, decriminalising possession of drugs and far more funding into social services would cut the numbers of prison places needed drastically.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let out all the people who don't need to be in jail, the ones that are in there for not paying fines, or drink driving, or fraud or anything that doesn't make them a threat to other peoples safety.

    Sorry? Drink drivers not a threat to others safety?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Build more prisons. Repatriate foreign prisoners where possible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    or drink driving, or fraud or anything that doesn't make them a threat to other peoples safety.

    Few people are in jail simply for drink driving itself.

    Why shouldn't those guilty of fraud go to jail? If someone robs the bank and nicks a couple of grand they'll go to jail...So surely someone who swindles the bank out of a million should also go to jail?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Build more prisons.

    At what point do we say that we have enough prison beds?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Build more prisons. Repatriate foreign prisoners where possible.

    Build them where though?

    I agree with Scary Monster - there are some people who are in jail (like people who don't pay taxes) who are in jail who aren't a danger to society and should possibly be punished in a different way.

    As for drug addicts - they should be put in rehab and not jail. (unless of course they killed someone whilst on drugs)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    At what point do we say that we have enough prison beds?

    When the vast majority of prisoners serve the entire length of their sentences.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    Build them where though?

    Many existing prisons are old and do not make efficient use of space, I'd have thought capacity could be increased through some rebuilding. If there's still not enough space build a few extra prisons in the middle of nowhere - out in the country in Wales or Scotland.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When the vast majority of prisoners serve the entire length of their sentences.

    Apart from the issue of getting them to behave themselves when there is no parole there isnt any relation between crime rate and prison population, just locking more up for longer isnt going to make us safer.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So, you'd rather that tax payers' money was wasted on building more prisons and keeping people in there who aren't considered a 'risk' than putting certain prisoners (drugs addicts, etc) in rehab?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    just locking more up for longer isnt going to make us safer.

    As Michael Howard proved and as has been shown in the US locking up persistent offenders cuts crime - burglars, rapists, conmen, murderers all pose a risk to the law-abiding public and should be locked up to protect the public.

    With regard to drugs I support decriminalisation, if not legalisation. I don't think drug addicts should be jailed. And as Aladdin said many of those inside for supplying should probably be released too depending on the circumstances; i.e. dealers with a record of violence or selling to kids should not be released.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because the fraudsters aren't doing anyone any good in jail, their debt to society coudl be far better paid in many other ways.

    As for drink drivers, unless they are repeat offenders they are far better dealt with (imo) with time consuming education programs and community service orders.

    Jail should be for people who need to be kept away from the general public; punishment should take another form.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Build more prisons. Repatriate foreign prisoners where possible.

    :rolleyes:

    Twat.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    :rolleyes:

    Twat.

    Yet another intelligent contribution from the resident anti-Semite. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    :rolleyes:

    Twat.

    :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yet another intelligent contribution from the resident anti-Semite. :rolleyes:

    Ah yes we're talking about prisons and you bring in anti-semitism. We've also given loads of reasons where it would be better and cheaper than building more prisons and you come out with that gem.

    Twat, twat! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still don't get what your :rolleyes: twat comment is in reference to though?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still don't get what your :rolleyes: twat comment is in reference to though?

    You still don't get it, it was a case of pro anti faux psuedoantidisestablishmentarianismesque vulgarity.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm blonde!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Build more prisons. Repatriate foreign prisoners where possible.

    How is building more prisons going to help? They'll just fill up too.
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