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Enuff editing there, lol.
Right here i go again,
you keep going on about foetuses having 'a right to life', when r u gonna understand that we are not saying they do not have a right to live!
Ok if i was concieved through rape and my mother decided to give birth to me and keep me, there we go ive been given my right to live, she didnt want to have me because i reminded her of the rape, but she did anyway, she takes responsibility for her child she did not want and had forced upon her, and she looks at me every day and is reminded of what has happenedm which is passed onto me and therefore makes me feel bad about myself,
my mum has a husband and other children, they are upset there mother/wife has been raped and so is all the family then i come into the world and the whole family is turned around.
Life would be awful for me knowing i wasnt wanted by any of those ppl.
But hey that would be fine because at least i had been given my right to live eh??!!
We are simply saying that a lot of women would rather prevent making a childs life a misery and making thier lives a misery,
you yourself have been adopted and so have I,
I dont know what your experiences were but mine were absolutely awful, i am so messed up in my head about it all, but no i wouldnt say im glad i havent been born cos i have and thats that.
I just think you need to understand it from the other side, i understand that with you being concieved through rape you are obviously going to be a bit defensive about it all as i would too, but i dont think you see the fact that we are not saying you should not be brought into the world,
we are saying the way you were brought into the world is very very hard for so many ppl to deal with and would even drive some women to suicide or maybe even the children, the point im trying to get across to you is that you should try and understand the reasons that some women make the decision to have the child aborted.
They are not 'weak' because of the decisions they have made, they are simply making the decision that they think is best for them and the child, ok in some cases ppl dont think about the child they just think about themselves, but we are only human beings, no one is this extra special person who can cope with everything life throws at them.
You may not want to answer this but im going to ask you anyway,
What was the reason you were given up for adoption?
I am in no way defending the rapists. But you're still going to have to show me where the life of a rape baby is "disposable" because of the way it was conceived. I realize you may not be trying to attack me personally, but I see this viewpoint all teh time on message boards and in society in general, and frankly, I'm fed up with it. Now if you all want to go get abortions when you're raped, I can't stop you. But I just hope you might remember my words and think about it first. Nine months of putting yourself and your own needs aside is a small price to pay for being able to say you gave anotehr person a chance at life, I'm glad someone did that with me, despite the constant messages I get that I was not welcomed here in the first place (to this life, b/c of my bmom's trauma). The truth is, it's an issue...just like others might struggle with other issues in their lives, having eating disorders, going through unsuccessful relationships, or any other life issue. It's something I deal with. I certainly would not say that I never would have wanted to be born because of it!
I just wanted to clarify, I really get the distinct impression you think I'm defending the rapist, and I sincerely am NOT. But while his act creates the pregnancy, from there, it's in the hands of nature, and that baby has the same odds of survival as any other. Why not give it it's chance?? Again, I don't mean to sound pro-life here, or preachy in any way...just concerned that the life of a rape baby seems to be of so much less value than one conceived under "ordinary" circumstances. But I guess we will continue to have differences of opinion there, since my life happens to be one of such circumstance, and yours is not!
I don't mind answering that...I was a child of rape. For that reason, my bmom didn't feel she could raise me. She was pressured by family to give me away, too, as she is white and I am black. To the above poster who suggested, perhaps my motehr is lying about her own rape, yes, that is a very real possibility. However, having believed my whole life that this is how I was conceived, I have to stand up for the rights of those conceived this way, whether or not there is truth to it in my case. Now I am not trying to sway any of you ladies who have been through that trauma, but I can tell you that she has said our reunion has had a healing affect on her, to know she did a "right" thing out of a horible experience and gave another person life when -- you're quite right -- she didn't have to. I'm perfectly willing to accept another viewpoint, I just want to let you all see, you are all very instensely impassioned about your viewpoints, and so am I. I just hope for the sake of any future children involved that your rapes do/did NOT result in pregnancy. In Rachel's case, she first posted on the board (in the thread that started all of this, mind you) as a 14 yr. old stating she was pregnant and didn't care about "it" (her baby), then worked in the fact that she got raped. How do you even know she's telling the truth?? Maybe she just wanted to get everyone's sympathy after her first response didn't go over as she'd hoped? Just a suggestion. Now if she was telling the truth, I have nothing but sympathy for her, but still cannot detest her abhorrent attitude toward that innocent life which was ONCE inside her which did not ask for any of this either...did not ask for a rapist as a bdad, or for a mother that would not even see it as a separate human being...and most certainly, did not ask to be killed...
Let me turn the question around on you. Do you know why you were adopted? What if you found out it is because YOU are the product of rape?? I guarantee your viewpoint would change overnight.
[This message has been edited by mrsrb921 (edited 20-01-2001).]
i just dont think you can accept that some women do have thier reasons and we are not all as selfless as your birth mother,
i am interested in why you were adopted but if u do not want to answer that is ok,
id just like to know how it feels to you, what ur feelings are towards ur birth father etc etc,
maybe so i can understand ur point of view as well.
just thought id let you know.
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
what were the reasons that you were?????? obviously unwanted by someone, huh??????
Yes i do know why i was adopted.
It was because:
Mum got pregnant with me through my dad who did not rape her but they were only together for a few weeks or something, she did not tell him about me,
Mum had me when she was 16,
Got threw out,
Got involved witha nasty bloke who beat her,
Got pregnant by him,
Had my little brother,
I got beat off him all the time, was abused and neglected etc etc,
Got took away from her,
Her bf went to prison,
We got put back with her,
Bf got out of prison,
We were took back off her cos we were getting abused again,
This happened quite a few times,
She was on her last chance of having us back and the day she was supposed to come to court she married her BF,
I lived with my gran,
Then me and my bro went into a foster home and got to see our mum once every fornight or something like that,
When i was 6 i was supposed to see her that night then when got home was told id never see her again and me and bro were going in a childrens home,
The next 4 years were spent going from one family to another and the childrens home,
Me and bro then got told we werent allowed a family together cos he was half cast and i was white and it wasnt workin,
I got placed where i am now,
Bro is still in childrens home now and has been moved around even more,
His dad died of AIDS a couple of years ago,
We started seeing our mum again around that time and she found out she was HIV positive,
I found my dad about a year and a half ago,
My bro is seriously disturbed hes a little thug and i also have had loads of probs with drugs and crime and all that stuff,
This is why i would never ever put a child into care because i know how hard it is!
You may not want to answer this but im going to ask you anyway,
What was the reason you were given up for adoption?[/B][/QUOTE]
Forgot to tell you the reason why "I" was given up...my birthmother was a 13 year old child being raped by her father and 2 uncles...... okay...c'mon y'all....bring on your negative comments...but i'm telling you right now, i'll argue with you until the day i die about why i feel that i have the right to be alive...and a bunch of bristish idiots are not going to convince me otherwise, and how dare you suggest that i do not have the right to be alive, and that i SHOULD have a terrible life filled with emotional problems just because of the way i was conceived, like you have been doing to mrsrb in every silly post you people write!!
Unfortunately, the correct counselling, in this fair isle of ours, is sadly lacking.
I applaud your birth mum for having the strength to carry you to term, mrsrb, but as many have said here, alot of people just aren't strong enough and don't really need extra castigation for not being able to cope.
I also posted, to Rachael, in the same thread I'm sorry to hear that you went through this extreme situation, and although I still stand by my views I also try to live by the rule "never judge a man (or woman) until you've walked a mile in their shoes". meaning, that it was not my right to impose my precepts, or principles on to Rachael, because I have no idea of her situation or problems.
I hope that we can all come to terms with each other's points of view, and try to be less judgemental. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
j9
So why is it that you think a rape/incest conceived person would have more issues than you????????? Why do u people just expect that i am supposed to??????????? I think the raped moms have a RESPONSIBILITY to their child, regardless of how the child was conceived to get over it, and nurture the poor little child! soooooo sick of always hearing about the poor raped woman in all of this.....what about the child??????? and i mena the child that is already here...that was NOT aborted.....all you people jeep on saying is abort it...and piping on and on about the childs life being so sucky if they aren't aborted.....but what about the ones that are already here????????????? they are just destined to live a life of feeling guilty for being born, and for the sins of their fathers....all things that THEY had NO control over????????? Man, u people r pissing me off soooooo badly here now!
What so because she has been raped and had to go through the mental trauma of that happening and then has to have a child by that person which has basically been dumped on her one day through no fault of her own she is a cold bitch for not wanting them?
I dont see it that way at all, why should a women have to pay for a mistake that was not made on thier part none of them asked to be raped and impregnanted, it was something that happened to them out of the blue one day and against their wishes.
My argument is not saying abortion is better i am purely defending the women who choose to abort these children because i understand they have thier reasons, I also have not said there is nothing wrong with the children who are already here and i havent said i think they should have been aborted, i just think it is up to the mother to decide and at the end of the day we all have different ways of coping with things,
you may find it easy to give birth to a child that was put inside you by your rapist whereas another woman couldnt!
Im simply saying there is no right or wrong in this case it is what the mother chooses to do.
[UOTE]Originally posted by u people r clueless:
UMMMMM>>>>so what are u saying????? we should do away with adoption totally too??? Lets just kill all the unwanted babies...get rid of em all! You people on this board make me ill, and your stupididy is actually funny! Cuz EVERY single adopted person was obviously unwanted by someone inorder to have been available to be put up for adoption!!!![/QUOTE]
No I'm not saying we should do away with adoption at all because then where what would happen to children, what have i said that even makes you think i meant that??
and no not every child that is adopted is unwanted, some children are adopted because thier parents have died or because their parents did want them but werent lookin after them right.
Ermm i didnt say i was glad i was born just to be given up for adoption, what i meant was i have been born and thats that, but i wouldnt say i was glad about it! And i would much prefer to have had a better life!
Well seen as i never said any of that other part i never said anything about that either, why would anyone be glad they had been brought into the world in a way which was bad, they wouldnt but yes some are glad they have been given the right to live, which mrsrb921 has proven to us, and she has made a life for herself and her mother feels better about it all now, so there is proof that it can work but this is not always going to be the case.
Whaaaaaat?? When did i say YOU should have more issues than me, u have only posted a couple of times i have not said anything about you at all, and i havent said that a rape/incest child should carry more issues than a regular adoptee either, you seem to be reading everything im saying totally wrong and getting the wrong end of the stick.
You put ur argument across in a very het up way, is that ur idea of having a cheap dig at me by saying i was obviously unwanted by someone just because i understand the reasons why someone would want to abort a rape child, i wouldnt go around telling everyone who was raped that they 'should' abort the child if they became pregnant as a result of this but i would understand them if they did.
grrrrrrr!
We are NOT saying you shouldnt be born ffs,
we are just saying you cannot call women that decide to get rid of thier babies it is their own choice and what they feel they can cope with,
I have not said once that all of incest/rape babies should be aborted,
you are gettin me quite angry now with the way you are putting urself across, u obviously are NOT reading what we have said and taking it in, or you are just plain stupid and do not undestand english!!
I refuse to get involved into a slagging match with people, but I would like to firstly say that with a name like U people r clueless you are not in for a healthy debate just to be as offensive as you possibly can, and your attitude is as offensive to me as you claim others are to you. I suggest if you want to actually have a debate, do something unusual for a change think before you type.
Getting back to topic. I have a foot in all the afforementioned camps. I was adopted at birth and in a special needs baby unit when born, I was very close to death on arrival. I was adopted by a lovely couple who loved me and have always done what they could to help. When I was three I was sexually abused for a year or so, I grew up always knowing I was adopted because of an unwanted teen pregnancy, and always remember being forced to perform oral sex on my abuser, and being anally assaulted. This for me has always been hard to deal with and have been depressed from a young age and constantly suicidal.
When I was 14 I was then raped again by another male. All I can say that I'm glad I'm a male and could not have been able to conceive a child. I can only imagine that for some people the horror of being a result of such an abhorrent crime, is traumatic and these people end up seriously damaged, whilst there are others who couldn't possibly imagine a life without being alive and are greatful for what they have been given. Yes you do have a right to be alive. But women who have been raped, find it hard enough to deal with the trauma of this awful thing, without having to endure 9 months of torture, and then feeling guilty for having a child adopted. Before I get flamed, I have a friend I met in psychiatric hospital who was both a result of her mother being raped, and a survivor of childhood sexual abuse & a brutal rape years later. As much as it hurt to hear her pain, I can not tell you enough how many times she'd wished she was dead. Several times she said to me late at night how she wished she'd been aborted whilst her mother was carrying her.
Adoption in itself is a painful thing to deal with for the parent and the child. I can imagine that it may result in considerable hurt to find out the way you were bought into the world. I find it hard enough to deal with the fact I was unwanted and would be completely devestated to find out that I was unwanted because of such a traumatic event in life. For what it's worth I wish I hadn't been born, maybe just maybe my problems wouldn't have happened to me.
As for this stupid british thing, I think that is an insensitive thing to say to us, as this is a british site and will be populated mainly by brits, but no doubt Clueless you'll think everything I have said is wrong and selfish, and you'll choose to slagg me off, but I know I have the support of my friends here who have been wonderfull to me during my illness. If you don't like us brits and our so called attitudes, well you know what you can do... go elsewhere we don't make you stay here.
LUKA
<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif">
The river is wide and oh so deep. I've been walking around in tears, No answers arethere to get. Cause between this world and eternity there is a face I hope to see
You want people to accept your views but you aren't willing to accept other peoples views, so how can you critise them for being small minded and ignorant when you are being just as bad? (at least it sounds as though you are critising other peoples views, if you aren't i'm sorry, it just sounds like you are).
In case you didnt notice we live 5000 miles away from you. Attitudes to this subject are BOUND to be different. What use is the information on the number of babies concieved through rape in New York going to be to us???
Many people over here agree with abortion in exceptional cirumstances, rape is classed as an exceptional circumstance. Just because people in New York decide to have the baby doesnt mean people in Britain will do the same. All you keep doing is repeating your same point and constantly arguing with us. What do you hope to achieve from this? I can tell you one thing if you ask us for advice Im sure the majority will be less than willing if you call us baby killers and insult us. Like the others said, THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE.
has anyone actually read the post that sarted all this hatred and arguing off? for those who havent: this is the view and experience of one person, who herself was raped and found it too difficult to carry the baby to term. this is not an ignorant mind, she did researh, as she stated clearly. who are you to come on and start slagging her off for her personal choice? if someone wishes to have an abortion, they can, and a rape will make the possibility of that happening more likely in my opinion.
NO ONE has said that you have no right to live!! i dont know where you get that from. neither has anyone said that adoption should be scrapped, thats a silly idea. okay you obviously feel very strongly about this, being conceived of rape yourself. and rachael obviously felt strognly enough about her situation to have her foetus terminated. you also have no right to question the fact if she was raped or not.
on this board,we aim to give advice and support to those who need it. we may not alwas agree with whatever's goin gn or whats been said. bt you dont have to react so strongly to it, especially when it seems youve misunderstood some of the messages.
no one wishes you harm or thinks you shouldnt have been born. we just think that its the choice of the woman involved, whether to have an abortion or not. some choose to have an abortion, some choose adoption. its all a matter of personal choice and what you think is right for YOU. your birth mother gave birth to you, she obviously thinks she made the right decision, and we are not here to say otherwise.
i just think you should respect other people here, you're not going to gain much respect for your own personal views by choosing a name such as "u people r clueless" and ranting continuously and starting a topic called "BABY KILLERS!!" if you sound perpetually angry then people are going to start thinking it was a bad idea bringing you into the world if this is how you turned out! now im not saying this is my opinion; just that people MAY start to form this opinion if you have no respect for others and start insulting people and their right to choose, and just because you believe something, it does not mean you have the right to shout at people and question their choices that they made in a very stressful time, after they had been raped and roudn to be pregnant. reminds me of the topic started by "god" really, about people forcing their beliefs on others... which im sure you will turn around and say we are forcing our beliefs on you, which is not the case, if you actually read the posts properly!!
if you wanted to make your point, on what i know is a very emotive topic, it would have been better to present your side of it in a calm and collected way without resorting to insulting people and their choices. it shows you seem to be a very insensitive and thoughtless person, whether or not this is the case, its just the way you have portrayed yourself.
If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably end up somewhere else.
All I can say is well done gfm, well done <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
j9
I had a life once, but I stopped feeding it so one day it just walked away.
MTS ^5
If you don't know where you're going, you'll probably end up somewhere else.
I have read this post, and most of the people have been posting their views, mostly without yelling at each other that the "other side" of the case is wrong.
Stop slagging people off and try to realise that people have different views that should be respected. I'm sick of those arguments that have been going on lately.
Respect people and you shall recieve the same.
-Faf
Brennt barn forðast eldinn
Thankyou Faf on behalf of all the posters here at thesite from the UK.
BTW how are things with you at the moment, has the situation eased any ?
The river is wide and oh so deep. I've been walking around in tears, No answers arethere to get. Cause between this world and eternity there is a face I hope to see
I'm great at the moment, parents eating oooold food (yes, it's old and yucky!) at my uncles house and I saw an animated film today.
I talked to a counsellor last week and she told me to think positive, I'm trying, although it can be difficult, but as long as I try it can't hurt in my opinion.
There are days when I feel like everyone around me is too stupid to bother being around, when family members annoy me.
But I need to remember that the love of my current life (a horse that I am scared of riding, btw <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif"> ) is in the stables, along with people I respect. (not counting a girl that my net-friends decided to call 'Miss Ego' by my description).
Hope everything is fine for you!!
-Faf