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Is porn OK?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
there's a distinction, I think between making porn as an actor, making porn as a producer, and watching porn. What does everyone think?
I mean, if I think about it hard, I guess I sort of think think that although I don't have a problem with it being available and allowed, I do sort of feel a bit shitty about using it myself, simply because you don't nkow under what conditions it was produced, whether the woman involved wanted to do it or had to do it for whatever reason, etc.etc. But to say I've never seen any in my life would be a lie. (hope my mum doesn't read this.) WHich sort of makes me a hypocrite, I suppose.
What does everyone think?
I mean, if I think about it hard, I guess I sort of think think that although I don't have a problem with it being available and allowed, I do sort of feel a bit shitty about using it myself, simply because you don't nkow under what conditions it was produced, whether the woman involved wanted to do it or had to do it for whatever reason, etc.etc. But to say I've never seen any in my life would be a lie. (hope my mum doesn't read this.) WHich sort of makes me a hypocrite, I suppose.
What does everyone think?
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Youre worried about what conditions it was made under? Do you worry about normal films as well? The vast, vast majority of porn stars know what theyre doing and earn a very good living out of what they do..Lots of them also actually love their work.
Well, that covers the consumption of pornography; what about its production?
Let us apply the same principle: if none are harmed, on what grounds can we object? If the pornographic industry were sufficiently above-board for it not to be a place of desperation, would it not also be available to regulation and inspection to ensure that it was no more exploitative than any more conventional industry?
For myself, the only pornoraphy I have encountered has been the all-pervading pop-ups that saturate the internet -- and the incessant stream of junk mail drivel that bombards my inbox. Don't like it, don't want it, don't need it. But some might. And, if it were produced without gross harm to others, I'd be happy to let them have it.
I'm asking questions rather than making statement because I'm genuinely unsure on this one.
If someone wants to degrade themselves for money then whats the problem? They arent forced into the business, regardless of some of the rumours we always hear. The porn industry is regulated, every bit as much as the hollywood movie industry. Its not a back room thing anymore.
As for treating women like objects? Well thats always been the case and even women outside of the porn industry actively encourage this view. Every woman ive ever known has wanted to make herself look as sexually attractive an object as possible. Who cares if porno films treat women like objects rather than people? I certainly dont.
If people want to watch porn, then fine. Most participants know exactly what they are doing, and can stop when they want to.
The porn which should be stopped, is snuff and paedophile movies. Unfortunately the people responsible for those productions are the hardest to find and stop.
to say it doesn't matter if women are treated like objects is a bit weird, balddog. It does matter, a lot. If men are less open to women holding opinions or being interesting for reasons other than the physical because of porn surely that's a bad thing?
Still - in general I agree with everyone. Hooray!
PS, im not Whowhere
I know you don't, but I'm sure there are a fair number of men who do. I read quite an interesting article on this by someone like greer or andrea dworkin but I can' t remember who it was by. Which renders this message pointless, actuallu. SO I'll shut up and go to bed.
But that argument is really pointless. Its just like saying watching a gun movie will make someone becomes violent and shoot all the people in the street.
Im talking about every woman who dresses up, wears makeup etc etc. They turn themselves into objects. Their goal is to make themselves attractive to the opposite sex, to turn themselves into objects of lust.
Im not saying i have a problem with this, just that its equally degrading and happens a hell of a lot more than pornos.
What's that supposed to mean......?
Means exactly what it says
Prufrock called me Whowhere, Im not you.
oh, umm I didn't see him call you Whowhere. I thought you were making a reference to my porno habits or something.
I think porn is ok in moderation. I also believe that something that is voluntary, and that you get paid handsomely for can't be seen as degrading really. With the exception of certain tv shows like Banzai.
Equally degrading? Surely not?
That aside, an interesting, valid and -- in some ways -- disturbing point.
Well to be honest, I think its probably worse. At least porn stars are honest about what they are doing. They realise what they are doing..
I see a porn star degrading herself, I know shes simply acting a part. I see a normal girl on the street, i know shes not, i know that shes actually doing this for real.
And surely you could argue that men do the same by shaving, wearing nice clothes, aftershave etc. We are all vain, not just women.
Women put makeup and nice clothes on to make themselves look good to others. Theres no other possible reason for doing so. Yes ive heard all that about how women do it for themselves but dont believe a word of it.
and yes I agree with you about men being just the same...This isnt an anti-woman rant here. I love seeing good looking girls all made up, im just saying that the whole purpose of doing so is to look good to others. Although I do take issue with the shaving, i shave because i hate having facial hair as its itchy as fuck
By trying to improve your looks, you are turning yourself into an object. The moment you turn to image rather than mind/personality you are trying to become an attractive object. Everyone does it, thats my whole point.
Anyway, you changed your tune, first you said it was for men, then for "other people".
I feel self conscious without make up on and I do feel better with it on, I don't care if you don't believe me. Of course it is to do with other people to some extent because I don't care how I look when I am at home on my own.
But to compare it with porn is just silly in my opinion.
Can you tell me why porn is degrading then?
Porn = turns women into objects of lust
Makeup/clothes = turns women into objects of lust
In a porno, a person is PURELY an object, but (eg) if a woman goes to an interview and is attractive with her make up on and hair done, she is still not purely an object.
I don't have anything specifically against porn, as long as it is moderated and a person does not become obsessed with it.
Makeup for example, increases a woman's amount of confidence, especially when they are wearing nice clothes, smelling good etc.
So Balddog you are right in saying that they do it to look attractive, however they are simultaneously doing it for themselves, like i mentioned before, to boost their confidence etc.
Therefore it's not just to impress men or whatever - it's to impress everyone including themselves, because surely if others find them attractive then they themselves are benefitting from the fact?
So yeh they may wear makeup, sexy clothing etc. and look attractive but sometimes their main reason is to make themselves feel better about themselves. On the other hand there are of course cases where they do it, the main purpose being so they look good to others, for example on a night out and they are on the pull.
So its the the level to which a woman turns herself into an object that you have a problem with? You are right about an interview, that, they arent solely an object, although its still their goal to make themselves look good to the interviewer..How about a woman in a club/bar etc? They are solely objects.
Lexxie,
They feel confident because they know they look good to people. It boosts their confidence because they are impressing people with their looks. They feel better about themselves because they know people think they look good.
Yes, and in effect, they are doing it for themselves.
So you agree with me then...Degrading yourself is degrading yourself, regardless of the target audience..
They turn themselves into objects in order to up their confidence..As i said, i dont have a problem with this, just pointing out that this is the way life works and that porn is no more degrading than everyday life.
as for the porn thing i dont think it degrades women but it depends on whats being shown. if its made to look like women are just there to have sex with its not good but if its just sex then its something most people do so i dont think there is anything wrong with it.