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Religious Symbols in Schools

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It might be very sad, but I think far more people would stop going to school if they can't wear such things there, than stop wearing them.

    I don't think it would. I think most of it is hot air tbh. The usual whinging about how the religious are "oppressed" because they're not given special treatment over everyone else. Remember Turkey was the country that pioneered the headscarf ban, and in that muslim country, it even applies to university students.

    I am wary about this issue though. We don't want a situation like in America where loads of students are removed from school and home-schooled, because they dared to teach things like evolution and contaception (they even have a creationist "university" over there that does a degree in "biology" based on the biblical account of creation). We already have some private schools in this vein in this country and they're very scary. The only argument that kinda has been convinced on the faith schools front (although I think having a normal comprehensive school that allows its facilities for religious groups would be better) is that it allows the government to keep its eye on what's taught. I dread to think the day when the Saudis (if they haven't already) use their considerable funds to open a few schools in this country to offer an Islamic education that the state funded system failed to provide, for example. Ban moderate religious instruction in school, and you open a gap in the market for extremists. That's my only worry, although I don't know how well founded it is. After all, I'm still convinced that very few parents in this country really care about religion in schools (as shown by the number of people who mysteriously find god after having a child), and it's the religious leaders themselves that want to stay in control.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    You say that France doesn't have a uniform, but it depends on how liberally you interpret the word uniform. They presumably have some sort of dress code in the school, which applies to everyone. .

    I think its mostly anything goes, but kids are advised against wearing expensive stuff for school,

    eta - ive just asked my partner who says its generally anything goes, aslong as its decent and not too OTT. If you dressed too messy or slutty, then theyd probably complain
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A lot of people here think that we in the west are so nice that we only maim and kill the people in other countries ...cos we care.
    People in other countries dont need such care, please dont care too much for those. it would be great.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If that's your rules, then personally I'd say you have to allow religious dress then tbh. It's either a uniform or none at all for me. You can't single out religious clothing imo, just like you can't give it special treatment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    People in other countries dont need such care, please dont care too much for those. it would be great.
    I know mate but a lot of people in the west have been brainwashed into believing we have the best economic system ...a very exploitive one ...the best system of government ...we can vote for mostly spineless lawyers ...who then act as the front men for the big companies ...oil banking and such ...and that we are the best educated and nicest people in the whole wide world so our way is the only way ...and we have god on our side ...i think the god is called Mammon.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Believe me i am not favouring which they were doing but what US and UK Govt has done in Iraq and Afganistan is not right as well.

    I think that you will find that most people in the UK are against the war in Iraq and always have been.

    Afghanistan was a slightly different story and the reasons for invading and occupying the country is not quite the same as what is happening in Iraq.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    I think that you will find that most people in the UK are against the war in Iraq and always have been.

    Afghanistan was a slightly different story and the reasons for invading and occupying the country is not quite the same as what is happening in Iraq.

    I don't think what they did Afghanistan was right at all, now because of their war we have their war in our country (I live in Pakistan), now these assholes are coming after our country because we support US and UK war, plus after 9/11, they put the war on Afghanistan without having "any" proof at all this all was done by a "person" sitting in Afghanistan, he was a problem but not that much big. And now after 7-8 years in war where they stand, they have destroy a country and have destroy their own country because UK and US has to put allot of money from peoples money on war which has no result at all and they are loosing that war, if UK Govt put that money in making hospitals, schools etc in their own country instead of putting that much money in war, hope that mass immigration happen during last few years in UK will make no effect on UK hospitals and schools and any other public service, and Gordown Brown may not loose election which happen few weeks back.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We were allowed "small religious symbols" round our necks. I didn't notice it creating a problem. If anything, it evened things out because everyone wore crosses just 'cos they could...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think what they did Afghanistan was right at all, now because of their war we have their war in our country (I live in Pakistan), now these assholes are coming after our country because we support US and UK war, plus after 9/11, they put the war on Afghanistan without having "any" proof at all this all was done by a "person" sitting in Afghanistan, he was a problem but not that much big. And now after 7-8 years in war where they stand, they have destroy a country and have destroy their own country because UK and US has to put allot of money from peoples money on war which has no result at all and they are loosing that war, if UK Govt put that money in making hospitals, schools etc in their own country instead of putting that much money in war, hope that mass immigration happen during last few years in UK will make no effect on UK hospitals and schools and any other public service, and Gordown Brown may not loose election which happen few weeks back.

    Since Pakistan were instrumental in putting the Taliban in power, of course Pakistan will be involved. However, as you say, this is probably best discussed in another thread.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't see the issue with people in school wearing religious symbols.

    I do have an issue with school assemblies making children pray and sing hymns.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    I don't see the issue with people in school wearing religious symbols.

    Me neither, as long as you're prepared to extend those rights to anyone who wants to wear jewellery - if that's the example in question - which displays their opinions on any matter i.e. i should be allowed to wear a Flavour Flav clock as an advocate of Rap and Hip-Hop.
    I do have an issue with school assemblies making children pray and sing hymns

    Agree.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    I don't see the issue with people in school wearing religious symbols.

    I do have an issue with school assemblies making children pray and sing hymns.

    Thats what bothers me - and my son coming home talking about god and jesus as though its fact, when i specifically chose a non-religious school
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thats what bothers me - and my son coming home talking about god and jesus as though its fact, when i specifically chose a non-religious school
    Yah that should not be as schools are not there to teach religion it should only be taught in home.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Me neither, as long as you're prepared to extend those rights to anyone who wants to wear jewellery - if that's the example in question - which displays their opinions on any matter i.e. i should be allowed to wear a Flavour Flav clock as an advocate of Rap and Hip-Hop.

    Actually if we look them as equal then u are right but we should ask the question can we make religious symbols and any other thing equal, if so then this is valid demand otherwise its not?

    What u all think?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yah that should not be as schools are not there to teach religion it should only be taught in home.

    Children should be educated about all the religions - it's one of the best antidotes to religious belief. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated into one religion.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Children should be educated about all the religions - it's one of the best antidotes to religious belief. Children shouldn't be indoctrinated into one religion.
    Yah but if state wants to teach them religion but i dont think they should involve into teaching religion to people. But if state wants to then it should teach them all of them but question can arise in which class it should be done?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yah but if state wants to teach them religion but i dont think they should involve into teaching religion to people. But if state wants to then it should teach them all of them but question can arise in which class it should be done?

    I don't understand. Children should be educated about religions as part of a well-rounded education. They shouldn't be taught that any of the religions are true, just simple facts about what religions do and don't believe, and a history of how they've come about. You make a child more susceptible to religious indoctrination if the only religion they ever hear about is the one their parents subscribe to.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't understand. Children should be educated about religions as part of a well-rounded education. They shouldn't be taught that any of the religions are true, just simple facts about what religions do and don't believe, and a history of how they've come about. You make a child more susceptible to religious indoctrination if the only religion they ever hear about is the one their parents subscribe to.
    u are right but problem is when u are going to teach them religion that way, question will arise can we teach them as "HISTORY", all the religious people will come on street with slogan that u have made our religion something which is not true or worthless.
    From where u will get teachers who will teach it like that, personal biasness will come because that teacher may believe in one of the religion, etc etc.
    Its not that much easy as it looks.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    u are right but problem is when u are going to teach them religion that way, question will arise can we teach them as "HISTORY", all the religious people will come on street with slogan that u have made our religion something which is not true or worthless.
    From where u will get teachers who will teach it like that, personal biasness will come because that teacher may believe in one of the religion, etc etc.
    Its not that much easy as it looks.

    In this country i don't think it's particularly difficult to have religious education taught objectively; a Christian taught me RE. I suspect you're right about trying to get objective religion taught in theocracies though - though that's the least of their problems.
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