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If you think that 14 days is a "life" then we're never going to agree.
And that's 14 days from first cell division too...
Not sure, but I'm willing to take him up to the top of the Eiffel to find out
Until then, nobody is harmed by this, so like everything else in life, don't ban it unless it infringes on someone elses life.
Took a few seconds, but
But I don't think that's even the reason why the Church is against masturbation. When/where has it given that as the reason?
The problem isn't them becoming anything more than cells. The problem is the mixing of human and animal cells in itself. Human life is more valuable than animal life for everything that separates humans from animals. To disregard that is a debasing thing to do.
Well they'd say so wouldn't they. One of them said in the Metro yesterday that 'Cells grown using animal eggs cannot be used to treat patients on safety grounds but they will help bring nearer the day when new stem cell therapies are available'. It's just one avenue, there are other avenues that can be taken which may lead to 'new stem cell therapies' which don't involve research which is as dehumanising as this is. A guy from a secular watchdog said in the the same paper yesterday that 'the public has been grossly misled by the hype that this is vital medical research'. I suspect he's right.
Just killing foetuses on the one hand, and mixing animal and human cells on the other are two different things though. It's human DNA if it comes from a human. Human DNA is special because it is human. Even accepting that we 'share the vast majority of our DNA with other animals' doesn't change the fact that we're not animals, that's why it's wrong to blur and disregard that line as this does.
Secondly why on earth would be wrong to use animal DNA or to end up benefiting from it, or even having a tiny proportion of DNA used on you for medical purposes?
Do you think that a man who were to have an organ from a pig transplanted into him would become any less of a man?
They use pig valves in heart surgery quite often dont they?
Pope Paul VI... whenever his reign was:
"Catholic teaching is that sexual activity is intended for conception, thus masturbation is an immoral sexual practice because it does not permit conception."
EDIT:
Support or disapproval aside, you're making a completely moot point. Unless you have a degree in genetic engineering and research that you aren't telling us about, you're hardly qualified to speculate on whether this will lead to new advancements or not. (Quoting excerpts from the well respected scientific journal that is the Metro doesn't count here.)
I know in one episode of House they used a pigs liver to clean the blood of someone, but thats not really what you'd call evidence of wide spread use.
Again, your opinion or fact?
All that's been done is the utilisation of cells that would be otherwise disgarded and wasted through natural human process, No negatives from this, only countless possible positives. I really don't see what your objection is.
What are we then? Granted we are more gifted than most animals, but we have virtually all the same characteristics.
:yes: I think they've been doing this since the 70s. My mams husband has had 2 pigs valves.
We're humans, separated from animals by all that makes us unique, even though we share various characteristics.
If you're intent on calling us animals, then we're animals like no other on this planet. The fact that we have similarities with animals does not negate the fact that we're not animals like all other animals. Reason and will signal a break between us and every animal on earth. You note the separation but say it like it's just some slight variation, when in fact it is a difference in kind not in degree.
Of course not. But as you know, the two are completely different.
Well that's a statement about masturbation, and how it's wrong because it precludes procreation, not about when human life starts. I'm pretty sure the Church believes that life begins at conception.
It was a Dr David King of Human Genetics Alert. He certainly knows more about it that I do, that's why I quoted him, and probably more than you do. At any rate, I do know that there are other ways to get stem cells.
We tend to question whether research is ethical or not. Most people have the sense to know when something is amoral and debases society.
I would have thought it common sense. It's my opinion that it would be wrong to blur the distinctions between animals and human beings. You're obviously of the opinion that that's fine.
Warning: It'll make your piss boil; there's a bishop baptising a miscarriage and some of the most antiquated religious ideas put forward in opposition to stem cell research. I'm increasing worried about how the proponents of fairy-tales being taken in to consideration when making legislation are retarding out advancement as a nation in the 21st century.
I'm still intrigued, someone please answer this question.
Also I'm wondering if veggies/vegans or even the Animal Lib types would choose death over pig valve?
I'd choose pig valve! In fact, I don't eat meat or animal by products but I'm on antibiotics at the moment and they're made of geletine. I consider my wellbeing more important than the animals
I don't eat pork not for religious reasons but no longer like it. I'd choose the pig valve too without blinking. I wonder if I'd be affected by cellular memory though? :eek:
Some animals have also shown certain degree of self consciousness, again if at a much lower level.
We are an animal species like any other; albeit one who has evolved to far superior intelligence and language skills. A few million years down the line, if we haven't managed to destroy the planet or ourselves, I very much suspect we won't be the only species with such levels of intelligence or language.
In any case I really fail to see how it would have any significance to mixed human/embryo DNA. It's not going to start spreading through your body and mutate you into a half-human, half animal you know... You will be still be as 'worthy' and 'pure' a human as before.
Whats that!!
Please excuse my manners for veering off topic, but please can you specify what you are referring to when you say "proponents of fairy tales"?
I work all day, come home knackered, feed the cat first then myself.
Verdict: Animals are more intelligent than humans. Fact.
The whole bit on what Pope Paul IV said is about how sexual acts of any kind are for procreation only (ie, to make human life, not to waste potential life) and then only in marriage to the person you love. You said these cells are the beginning of human life, I'm asking where we draw that line. You could argue that sperm is the beginnings of human life as well, but such an argument would be pointless anyway.
Missing the point slightly, seeing as I figured it would be a quote from someone who knew what they were talking about. The majority of scientists seem to think this will be beneficial, so big deal if one disagrees? When have scientists ever agreed on what would work and what wouldn't work until they prove it through experiments? Hell, there's still "scientists" who refuse to believe certain things that have been proven as fact.
Regardless, where do you propose we get stem cells from? What could be more harmless than human skin cells that we aren't even using?
Morals and ethics are relative. If you don't realise that already there's really no point continuing this debate.
People who subscribe to the stories purported by any of the main religious texts.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I personally find that very offensive and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one. Please don't ridicule and belittle the scripture and prophecies of peoples' religions because this is chat & debate, not insult & annoy.
Otherwise you could risk sounding bigoted and misinformed regarding the subject of which you are speaking and debasing your argument.