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Essential support for under 25s
Essential support for under 25s
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Easy
Eaaaaasy!
That doesn't make it at all right. Just because millions of people do it, doesn't make it any more right than one person doing it.
Fine she may be a publicised case, but in crude terms, she is sponging off hard-working tax payers as reward for not keeping her legs shut for more than 5 minutes. Two sets of triplets is an unfortunate genetic occurance but don't you think after the first set, she would have thought, "you know what, I think three babies at 14 is quite a lot to deal with".
She's getting no fucking sympathy for me.
Can you imagine a Victorian woman walking about some town in modern England on a friday night? She'd faint every 30 seconds!
But the government support isn't even the main issue though Ashlee. Even with government support, it's still a bad condition to be in. She hasn't finished her education, she doesn't have a good paying job, father's buggered off, life is going to be tougher than it had to be, for her and her kids. It's all good and well wanting babies, but give a thought to what is best for them.
lol, some sentimental tossers would consider it a blessing, from God even.
What constitutes a child depends from culture to culture. In many countries it is not unusual for a 13 year old to go out and work. We are fortunate in this country enough to have free education and live in a world where children don't have to go out to work to feed their family. In a lot, quite possibly most countries, the case is quite the opposite.
13 year olds having babies, looking at the bigger global picture is probably not that unusual. Neither is older men marrying girls that young. Many young women grow up from a young age, caring for and raising their little sisters, especially in countries where HIV is a problem.
I think that it's experiences which make people mature. That is why you meet 25 year olds who are as irresponsible as 14 year olds.
'Kids' (however defined) in other countries often have a whole lot more on their plate compared to British children and they grow up to adapt to their environment. A 13 year old with a British upbringing may not have the skills or experience to bring up a baby, but in another country, she would.
She's not got any sympathy from me; but I don't get the impression that she wants sympathy? She chose to have these babies; that was her choice. When a 25 year old chooses to have a baby or six they don't get totally slagged off. Her age is an age and if she is looking after those babies properly then so what.
Her mum also works to support her daughter and grandchildren. OK, so they are sponging of taxpayers. But that's always going to happen; doesn't make it right I know it doesn't. But like people have said; better than six, poor, innocent babies living in poverty or being taken away from their mother and siblings. Lesser of two evils.
She obviously didnt think at 14, 3 babies was enough to deal with. She CHOSE to have more. CHOSE to. Why critize someones choice; she has to care for the six babies so let her get on with ok. OK, tax payers are supporting her choice but that's the systems letdown surely. Not that individual girls.
I'm just sick of people assuming that teenage girls decide to get pregnant as an easy option of a way to get a council house and benefits. It doesn't work like that. A few of my friends are TRYING for babies with their partners; they have flats/house and their partner has an income. Some teenage mothers I know live with parents who fully support them. They are all/will be good mothers; as any 20 or 30 year old would. Age is not always an issue; and I wish some people would get over the concept of having a baby when your a teenager is a sin and makes you a bad person and a bad mother.
(not aimed at you TS)
shes not.Its not in this fucking country, its in argentina. The only support shes getting is off her mothers cleaning job after the father left them in the lurch.
Of course the person/people who GOT her pregnant all these times and fucked off has had no mention anywhere, but shes the slut?
Who says it is a bad condition to be in? Only you think that. Mabye she is damn happy with it. Mabye it is what she wanted from life. You are bothered about her education, her job and the father mabye more than she is. She has chosen to do this with her life, and until you know her, as an individual you are in no position to say what is good and best for her and her babies. Her choice; her life.
I think you've answered your own question there.
I'll criticize someone's choice until the cows come home as i) she quite clearly had no thought for the consequences of her actions ii) she'd be bringing not one, not two, but SEVEN children into the world in the face of horrific poverty which doesn't suggest a great deal of forethought and iii) it's the Argentine taxpayer that's going to have to foot the bill for her exceptionally misinformed choice that gave, from what it seems to me, no thought to the possible consequences of her actions.
I'm just grateful it didn't happen here. Oh wait, hang on, it happens here all the time.
You could argue however, that once her children come of working age, they would pay back more than she has took.
Also wondering how she found time for sex when she had triplets and another son already...
It's not for us to judge, without knowing all the facts (and even if I did) it's difficult to understand just what went wrong here and whether they do even consider it to be the case that something "went wrong". I know if this were to happen to one of my daughters I would feel that way, but every family situation is different. I will say it seems quite reckless to me, and it seems as though religion may once again play a big role. I do think four children were probably quite enough for this girl and her mother to raise...
The government are giving her a house to live in actually. Good thing I think, but it's not just her mum supporting her. I don't think a lot of girls in Argentina would get the same support though.
:yeees: :rolleyes:
Another thing that annoys me. Why do people PRESUME that when a girl gets pregnant she just chooses to have an abortion or she chooses to keep the baby. Just a choice, no thought, no care for herself or the baby. ABSOLUTE shit. I agonised over the thought for weeks and weeks. Thought in detail about every year of my possible baby's life. Of my future, and of my life with or without a baby. Girls DO put a great deal of forthought in; generally talking. I'm certain that this girl in the article didnt think, oh look, here I am pregnant again, already got for babies, but hey, never mind lets carry of life and I'll pop out another three sprogs. I'm sure she cried when she found out, I'm sure she felt like her world was ending, I'm sure she thought long and hard about her children and her unborn babies and she came to the decision (which will the no contraception and illegal abortions didnt leave her much of a decision to make) that she was keeping the baby.
You have no idea about her pregnancies, or about her thoughts concerning her children. You do not know that she never thought about her consequences on herself, her mother, her children, the taxpayers of her country. I'm sure she did as in my experience, it's pretty much impossible not to.
/rant over - I really should stay out of this thread!!
I was referring more to the choice of getting pregnant or not. Now, granted, it may well be the case that she didn't mean for it to happen, but don't you think after the first three came out, a little thought appeared in her brain that maybe she should be more careful in future since her own personal circumstances don't exactly lend themselves to supporting a small army of kiddies?
Your own personal circumstances are a million miles away from this and are thus irrelevant.
I'm sure most girls put a load of thought in - this one clearly didn't.
She might well have thought that it was awful and agonised for the lives of her unborn babies, but at the end of the day, she made her bed and now she has to lie in it. All our actions have consequences and she's now reaping the consequences of her actions.
No I don't. And nor do you. Like everyone else here, I'm going on the facts that have been presented to me. So taking the 'you don't know how she feels' line is completely irrelevant and unproductive as without climbing inside her head, none of us would be able to know what she was feeling.
I'm not saying she's wholly responsible for what has happened. Far from it. However, human biology does unfortunately lend itself to man impregnating woman and then fucking off leaving woman to raise child. A sad reality. The father(s?) are abominable cowards and if I ever met one I'd give them a fucking slap. However, this does not detract from the facts that a 16 year-old girl has just given birth to her 7th child and is receiving state support for it. The mother and father(s) are all equally culpable and, in an ideal world, would all reap the consequences of their stupidity. Sadly however, the world rarely works like that.
Have you not been reading what people have been saying? Contraception is not widely avaliable in Argentina...therefore it wasnt her fault really or her choice to get pregnant perhaps. Or perhaps it was, and that's a valid choice.
And after her first baby, which was a son mabye she did want another. Mabye she felt like she was mature enough and was ready to have another baby. And she had triplets. And if the contraception isn't there for her to be a little more careful then what she should no longer have sex. Because she already has a baby; her baby is a punishment I guess and she shouldn't be allowed to have sex any longer because shes already had a baby. Mmm, fairness eh.
So a 25 year old woman from Argentina who is in the same circumstances, has a baby, recieves god forbid financial support. She should no longer have sex now because she can't access contraception??
I know you're going to turn around now and say well, yeah, she shouldnt have sex again if she knows she is going to produce another child, or three. But she did, AND IT'S HER CHOICE!!
No, my own personal circumstances are not a million miles away from this girl. This girl got pregnant young, and I'm sure she felt as distraught as all girls who get pregnant do when it was accidental.
I still do NOT understand why you think you have the evidence to say she clearly didnt put a lot of thought into it? How can you prove that? Mabye she thought damn hard and put loads of thought into it, and her choice and decision at the end was to keep the baby. Each and every time. She still put thought in and just because her choice wasn't the "right one" in your head it doesnt make it a wrong or bad decision on her behalf.
Yes, she has made her bed and she is lying in it. She's not complained. She's not moaning. So leave her in her bed, and let her get on with it and stop being so damn judgemental about a situation which is so complex and involves so many lives that we can't start to truely understand what is going on.
And she's repeating her actions and living with the consequences; it must be what she wanted. I don't think she would carry on having sex and getting pregnant if she didn't want more kids. So let her carry on repeating her actions and living with the consequences.
No One knows how she feels. She is a human being. Facts don't work. It is all about her individual circumstance.
In my opinion, don't judge until you can climb inside her head, and know how she is feeling.
It's so damn judgemental.
I have nothing to say about this bit :no:
Truth isn't subjective though. Even in England, before the Victorians, it wasn't unusual to send kids to work, or for some old fogey to exploit a girl who was under 16. I think you're confusing 'when a person is a child' with 'what is expected of a child'. The latter varies from culture to culture depending, as you say, on things like the country's wealth. But a child is a child in whichever country they're in. I think it's patronising, not to hold other peoples by our standards in this case, and I think most of our standards are universal. If they think a 13 year old is an adult, then they're wrong. If they know that a 13 year old is a child, but have to put them to work to survive, then that's understandable.
Non of that changes the fact that they're still children.
Sure, kids can be forced by their environment to learn, and adapt, and mature more quickly. But the fact that they are being forced to learn adult lessons at a young age doesn't make them adults, it makes them kids who are being forced to learn adult lessons at a young age. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they can handle the situation as well as an adult could either.
Common sense says it's a bad condition to be in and that it is not what is best for her babies. Kids cost money, if you have a good job, and the father is around, it is easier to provide them with the material things they need. Kids, on the whole, do better when they have both their father and their mother to raise them up. They're more likely to do better at school, not to fall into crime, and then to do the same with their own kids. 'Her choice; her life' doesn't change the fact that it's the wrong choice (if you're thinking about your kids and not yourself) for those reasons. She'd probably have seen it that way if it had been explained to her properly.
OK, I can buy that point of view. BUT what was her alternitives? Abortion is illegal there. Even if it was explained to her properly she would still have at least one of the babies as she already got pregnant.
As for having six more; back to the question of - should she just not have sex then because she can't access contraception?
feels like going round in circles now!
You say it like it's this great big impossible thing to do, you horny wench.
I think someone suggested a Rabbit.
mm 'cos if she can't get her hands on a few condoms or a couple of packets of the pill she is sure going to be able to get a rabbit isn't she. :rolleyes:
But this is after the fact now, yea lots of people mucked up - I don't think it's a normal thing or a good situation to be in even in Argentina - but I think it is good that the government are helping with costs because why should the children suffer?
Who should take responsibility for the pregnancy though? If it was wanted, why at such a young age, to different fathers? Her mother seemed to indicate it wasn't intentional, saying it was like the end of the world.
If it wasn't intentional, then, why was she not using contraception? Was it her fault, or the governments, or her parents, or her schools, or her boyfriends, or the catholic church?
I don't think you should say to people after they have so many kids they should stop having sex. I think what you should say is that people should enjoy themselves sensibly. I don't blame the kid necessarily - maybe some poor judgements made but it seems there is poor information available to kids in Argentina.
Even if she was fully mature at 13, or 23, it's still a bit... iffy to be having sex without contraception.
Girls today are so unimaginative.
Have you even read the thread? Its been discussed to death why she wasn't using contraception.
Well, if they can't deal with the consquences/afford to bring up the child, then they shouldn't have sex.
yes it is, but emergency conteraception isn't
In the seventies it was illegal in Ireland and i knew a bloke in Manchester who made a fortune smuggling durex and other things into the country on his lovely schooner.
You can always get contraception but ...the poor lass is a kid ...does she know about such things? I doubt it.