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SG off to uni - but why?

BillieTheBotBillieTheBot Posts: 8,721 Bot
edited March 27 in Work & Study
Right then, deep breaths... Whenever I have mentioned this topic in the past, everyone seems to moan "oh, not again", though not for the same reasons. As many of you know, I was due to start university last year, but I had to leave due to very serious financial difficulties. There were some particularly vocal critics when I made the decision, whom incidentally, I'm not interested in hearing from here. Anyway, after a few more difficult months, I managed to get a job working for an arcade. In the meantime, I put in another application form to UCAS. This time, I only applied for two universities. I've confirmed my final choice as Manchester Met University. And that's where the problem starts...

Earlier this week, during a 'candid' conversation with a friend, she asked me “Danny, why are you even going to university?”. In all honesty, it was a question I seriously struggled to answer. Initally, it was more about gaining a sense of independence and trying something out for myself. As time has passed though, that doesn't hold as much water as it used to. It seems the main motivation now is getting out of the area I'm in. The truth is, I would have very few prospects open to me by staying here. University appears to me to be the only viable option for getting out of that rut, though I'm well-aware it may not succeed. If I don't go, my options would be extremely limited.

Increasingly, it's leading me to question why I've chosen to do an English & Politics degree. I risk the wrath of many a student when I ask - what use can a degree in Politics be?

Ultimately, what I'm asking here is - is going to university merely to try to better your prospects sufficient? Or does there need to be another 'driving force' behind it?
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Post edited by JustV on
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What sort of career do you want to go into? I dare say that doing an arts degree at Manchester Met will most likely not increase your prospects - most people who do arts degrees at lower-ranked unis end up going into jobs you didn't need a degree for, and may well have been better off just getting a job after A-Levels and (a) not going into student debt, (b) being at a relatively senior position 3yrs in compared to a graduate. Read this BBC article which looked into this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2823717.stm If you want independence and to get away just get a job in a new city?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interesting to see the spread of how much a language degree will either increase or decrease your earnings. However, I suspect that Russian (with a 2:1 - heard today :yippe: ) will increase it somewhat...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh not again!!

    What i'll say to you is, i dont think there will be many times in your life when you'll be put in a place with so many different people, all types of people. The chance to make looooads of new friends is there for ya, of course your ultimately there to get a degree and yeah i think it will improve your prospects. But from my view of my first year at Uni, it was about making friends and being away from home and doing your own thing.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Having just graduated from Manchester Met, albeit from a science dept and walked into a top grad job I wouldn't worry too much about Jomery's comments there. But before we turn this into another thread like the whole which uni one we'll move swiftly on and ignore that side of things.

    Having a degree will always broaden the number of jobs available to you. Having tried myself after quitting uni the first time to get a decent job with prospects from only A-Levels I know how difficult it is. I was either over qualified or under qualified, but no one just wanted A-Levels. However, you do need to know or at least have an idea, about what you want to do after uni. The degree you've chosen leads me to believe that you don't really have a clue, but just want a degree. Maybe I'm wrong there?

    Of course going to uni merely to better your prospects is a good enough reason. I can't think of any other major reason why I went and I'm sure its the same for most people.

    However, if you purely want to get away from where you are, why can't you just move to Manchester (or anywhere else) and get a job there? Where there is a wider choice of jobs and prospects available to you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interesting to see the spread of how much a language degree will either increase or decrease your earnings. However, I suspect that Russian (with a 2:1 - heard today :yippe: ) will increase it somewhat...

    Congrats :)

    Would be interesting to know how much those figures have changed over the last 4 years since they were published as well.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jomery wrote: »
    What sort of career do you want to go into? I dare say that doing an arts degree at Manchester Met will most likely not increase your prospects...
    Yeah, yeah. Coming from TheSite.org's Resident Snob (feel free to use that as a caption under your name, by the way) I suspect what you're really saying is that a degree at Manchester Met wouldn't increase my prospects.
    GoodFella wrote: »
    But from my view of my first year at Uni, it was about making friends and being away from home and doing your own thing.
    The 'making friends' thing is just a bonus to me. All I know is I've gotta be slightly more open-minded than last time. When I was up at UWE getting to know a few fellow students, I just left thinking "what a bunch of prats". Some of them genuinely were, but I think that's one thing I've got to get out of doing.
    Kazbo wrote: »
    However, you do need to know or at least have an idea, about what you want to do after uni. The degree you've chosen leads me to believe that you don't really have a clue, but just want a degree. Maybe I'm wrong there?
    Erm... no, it's not fair to say I have no idea at all what I want to do. Problem is, I'm not dead certain on anything either. The worst of both worlds.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kazbo wrote: »
    Having a degree will always broaden the number of jobs available to you. Having tried myself after quitting uni the first time to get a decent job with prospects from only A-Levels I know how difficult it is. I was either over qualified or under qualified, but no one just wanted A-Levels. However, you do need to know or at least have an idea, about what you want to do after uni. The degree you've chosen leads me to believe that you don't really have a clue, but just want a degree. Maybe I'm wrong there?
    Loads of people get A-Levels then get a job and not go to uni, they seem to do fine..whereas there's an ongoing problem frequently reported in the media of how so many graduates can't get graduate-level jobs - Sunday Times league table showed it can be the majority for grads at unis outside the top 50.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Yeah, yeah. Coming from TheSite.org's Resident Snob (feel free to use that as a caption under your name, by the way) I suspect what you're really saying is that a degree at Manchester Met wouldn't increase my prospects.
    Depends what subject. Seriously, English & Politics at Manchester Met - try getting hold of info from the careers dept on what grads go into, it's not exactly going to be high-flying jobs. The average starting salary will be around £15k, which you'd hit / be on more than if you spent those 3 years working post A-Levels, and not have the student debt worry either.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jomery wrote: »
    Depends what subject. Seriously, English & Politics at Manchester Met - try getting hold of info from the careers dept on what grads go into, it's not exactly going to be high-flying jobs. The average starting salary will be around £15k, which you'd hit / be on more than if you spent those 3 years working post A-Levels, and not have the student debt worry either.
    Can you please do me a favour, and piss off? All I bloody hear from you is about how brilliant you are, and how you've managed to get into one of the most elitist universities in the country. Please, some of us have far more important things to worry about.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jomery wrote: »
    Loads of people get A-Levels then get a job and not go to uni, they seem to do fine..whereas there's an ongoing problem frequently reported in the media of how so many graduates can't get graduate-level jobs - Sunday Times league table showed it can be the majority for grads at unis outside the top 50.

    Isn't it a more worrying fact though that someone with practically the top level of qualification in the country can't get a job and therefore more interesting to report on than someone who just has A-Levels.

    I can only talk from my own experience. But there was a definate gap in the jobs market for people with A-Levels, who wanted to actually get somewhere in life and have a career as well. Everyone wanted either 16 year olds that they could train and pay crap wages to without them worrying, or people with degrees and the relevant qualifications who they didn't need to spend money on training.

    Yes I could have walked into any retail job, secretarial job etc but they aren't the sort of jobs that would keep me interested or make me feel I had prospects.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kazbo wrote: »
    Isn't it a more worrying fact though that someone with practically the top level of qualification in the country can't get a job and therefore more interesting to report on than someone who just has A-Levels.
    I think there's a mixture of two factors here. Firstly, there are now more graduates than ever before. The reason for this is the huge expansion of British universities in the last fifteen years or so. Indeed, the Government has a target that it wants 50% of 18-30 year olds to go to university. I personally think the target is arbitary and wrong-headed. Regardless, the fact there are so many graduates means there's more competition - and more people losing out as a result.

    Secondly, I think there may be a certain snobbery amongst some graduates. I emphasise the word "some". Perhaps they emerge from university thinking "oh, I've got to get a graduate job. Nothing else will do". I have no idea if this sort of attitude is widespread, but I think it does exist. To what extent is harder to judge.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Erm... no, it's not fair to say I have no idea at all what I want to do. Problem is, I'm not dead certain on anything either. The worst of both worlds.

    Appologies for that then. What sort of things are you toying with? Might help us be able to advise whether your chosen degree will help or not.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kazbo wrote: »
    Appologies for that then. What sort of things are you toying with? Might help us be able to advise whether your chosen degree will help or not.
    I've had several different ideas about that one. I'll just list them in the order they come to me... journalism, teaching, diplomacy, business... I'm too tired at the moment to remember all the ones I've had over the last few months.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Secondly, I think there may be a certain snobbery amongst some graduates. I emphasise the word "some". Perhaps they emerge from university thinking "oh, I've got to get a graduate job. Nothing else will do". I have no idea if this sort of attitude is widespread, but I think it does exist. To what extent is harder to judge.

    Replace the word graduate with the word Jomery?

    There does sadly exist a small minority of people who emerge from university with that attitude but most people, or at least, virtually all of the people I know, come out with a love for their subject that they didn't have before (myself particularly), a wider appreciation of the world, its people and basically as more rounded, mature, tolerant and intelligent human beings. I've come out completely in love with a language I didn't even apply to do and a firm idea of what I want to write a PhD on when I can afford to take the time out and fund it myself. Who'd have thought it?

    Naturally there are always anomalies...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I've had several different ideas about that one. I'll just list them in the order they come to me... journalism, teaching, diplomacy, business... I'm too tired at the moment to remember all the ones I've had over the last few months.


    Well other than business I think it should help with any of those lines. According to the mmu website they are also all fields of work that their grads in your subjects enter into. I couldn't find any actual stats as to the percentage who got jobs straight from uni unfortunately, although I did only have a cursory look.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kazbo wrote: »
    I couldn't find any actual stats as to the percentage who got jobs straight from uni unfortunately, although I did only have a cursory look.
    Even so, I question the use of such statistics. When compiling these stats, do the universities just include everyone who got any kind of job after leaving university? If so, it effectively renders them meaningless.

    This is the problem with being 22 years old and out of education for nearly four years. One starts to ask questions...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was 21 when I went back to uni and yep I asked all the same questions. But I am now so glad that I took the step and have the degree behind me. As my brother said when I got my grades (2:1 ...damn being 2% off a 1st), I've got a damn good qualification behind me and the best start to a career that anyone in the field could ask for. Without going to uni I wouldn't be in this position today, nor would I be on the salary I'm on if I'd worked all the way through.

    I think, but don't quote me, that the stats are done on the people who get jobs relating to their degree in some way, but how they do them really I don't know. Don't think I ever looked.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kazbo wrote: »
    I was 21 when I went back to uni and yep I asked all the same questions. But I am now so glad that I took the step and have the degree behind me. As my brother said when I got my grades... I've got a damn good qualification behind me and the best start to a career that anyone in the field could ask for. Without going to uni I wouldn't be in this position today...
    That's a very similar line to the friend I was talking to about it. She said something eerily similar. She graduated two years ago, and now works for a record label. She just feels that, there's something lacking in me, that there's something not quite right.

    Maybe I'm just not clever enough for university. My A-Level grades were pretty average, to say the least. I just think I was accepted simply to make up the numbers.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wouldn't worry about your A-Level grades. You're going as a mature student now. MMU do like mature students I'll give you that, but then again, they are usually the students who work hardest, because they go knowing it's what they want to do. They've tried life and decided that they need a degree to get where they want in general. if the government want 50% of people to go to uni, then I don't think your in the "not clever enough for uni" category. ;)

    IN what way did she think there was something lacking? Motivation, commitment, etc? If it was purely reason, then I don't think you need to worry. Your reason can quite simply be to get a job in a career that you're interested in and doing a degree like you've chosen keeps those options open.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kazbo wrote: »
    ...They've tried life and decided that they need a degree to get where they want in general. if the government want 50% of people to go to uni, then I don't think your in the "not clever enough for uni" category. ;)
    Huh? I'm confused all of a sudden.
    In what way did she think there was something lacking? Motivation, commitment, etc? If it was purely reason, then I don't think you need to worry. Your reason can quite simply be to get a job in a career that you're interested in and doing a degree like you've chosen keeps those options open.
    She just thought I wasn't showing any commitment to it, that I was rather nonchalant about the whole thing. Mind you, we had the conversation shortly after I'd finished a nine-hour shift in a busy arcade, so I wasn't exactly going to be all smiles and sunshine after that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Huh? I'm confused all of a sudden.

    Oops yes that wasn't very clear. I'm getting tired. I think I was really trying to say that you are intelligent enough to go to uni and don't worry about your grades. Sod the rest.
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    She just thought I wasn't showing any commitment to it, that I was rather nonchalant about the whole thing. Mind you, we had the conversation shortly after I'd finished a nine-hour shift in a busy arcade, so I wasn't exactly going to be all smiles and sunshine after that.

    As long as you feel that you will be commited to studying and putting the effort in required then being excited and what nots about actually going isn't required. I certainly wasn't, the idea of going back to being a student, not having money to live on, being older than the majority were all things that really made me tentative and nervous about going to uni and it wasn't until after the 1st year that I was really sure it was the right thing for me to have done.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi SG, if you have already made your mind up about going, then fair enough. Go and do your best and enjoy all the opportunities at university.

    If I was 18 now, I wouldn't go to uni. I don't think the debt is worth it, but it obviously depends what you want to do with your life.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dont listen to Jomery, possibly the most snobby up thier own arse person ive seen.

    Im about to Graduate with a Politics degree from Exeter (Only a 2:2 Unfortunatly... 2% more across the whole of last 2 years and it would be a 2:1 :impissed: ) and yes, i suppose the aim of university is to get a degree but its also a time where you can use opportunities to decide what you want to do.

    I joined my university Radio Station because it looked fun doing radio shows, news reports etc. Ive enjoyed it so much im starting a Postgrad Diploma in Broadcast Journalism at University College Falmouth in October (They only wanted a 2:2 thankfully!) Note, also the name of the uni doesnt mean a thing, its one of the most well respected courses for Journalism in the country with many high profile alumni working for the likes of the BBC and Sky.

    So i guess what im basically saying is that yes you are there to ultimatly get a degree, but its also about taking advantage of opportunities you will have at no other point and also gaining a bit of life experience.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Can you please do me a favour, and piss off? All I bloody hear from you is about how brilliant you are, and how you've managed to get into one of the most elitist universities in the country. Please, some of us have far more important things to worry about.

    I think what Jomery's saying has a point, if you're only looking at it in a career or financial sense.

    I wouldn't say don't go to MMU because it's not one of the best universities in the country, but you do need to weigh up what you would gain from it against what you would lose. If what you want is to come out with a degree level education and hopefully a 'life experience' of three years of fun and very little responsibility, and that to you is worth however much (9k plus living costs is it now?), then go for it. If however, the point of you going to do a degree somewhere is purely for career prospects, then you would need to look at the destination of those graduates on the course and whether they're now doing something you'd be interested in doing, and at what level, because it IS possible to do well without a degree (harder now than it was 20 years ago, but still possible). If it does turn out that you'd probably be on the same level as someone who had worked for the further three years, then is it worth it? It's your call.

    I personally would say yes, the three years i spent at uni were fantastic and not just because i now have a degree - i met some amazing people, had a fantastic time and thoroughly enjoyed myself. And it was worth the £7k debt i'm in now.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just having a degree certainly opens doors for you, even if it's not anything related to your degree. I went into my degree knowing for a fact that a degree in film and TV helps in no way in getting a job in that sector. However, it was one of the reasons my current boss hired me (in his own word, it suggests at least a certain level of intelligence if nothing else - plus time management, using initiative, ability to work unsupervised).

    Now I'm hoping to go and teach English in Japan, and you can't get a Japanese work visa without having a degree, so you never really know what you can't do without a degree until you try and do it and they say no.

    As for Jomery's point, it's certainly more about the course than the university that happens to run the course. My university was nothing special, but it is one of the the worlds leading centres of audience research in film and TV, which means you're being taught by the very best in that field (which is obviously a bonus if that's the field you want to go into). Similarly, all of the Japanese students I knew were doing International Politics, which confused me, until I found out that our uni was one of the world leading uni's in that field too. Cambridge and Oxford aren't the best at everything, you know? But choosing individual courses that are the best in their field kinda requires a bit of knowledge of what you want to do, so I don't think it applies in your case.

    I think English is respected whatever you want to do, and can get you a job doing a huge number of things. I'm not sure about politics, because I know nothing about it as a degree though. But just as a quick idea, the vast majority of top journalists didn't do a degree in journalism or media, they did a degree in whatever it is they report on most often. Your degree course sounds perfect for a political reporter in the media, for example.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As for Jomery's point, it's certainly more about the course than the university that happens to run the course. My university was nothing special, but it is one of the the worlds leading centres of audience research in film and TV, which means you're being taught by the very best in that field (which is obviously a bonus if that's the field you want to go into). Similarly, all of the Japanese students I knew were doing International Politics, which confused me, until I found out that our uni was one of the world leading uni's in that field too. Cambridge and Oxford aren't the best at everything, you know? But choosing individual courses that are the best in their field kinda requires a bit of knowledge of what you want to do, so I don't think it applies in your case.
    I got a 2.1 in a "mickey mouse" social science degree with little direct relevance to most jobs at a top university, and resultantly got offers in events management, media, finance, law etc, all of which have nothing directly to do with my degree. It was the university name on the CV that got me offers, not the course - which I sometimes don't even mention, just put BA (Hons).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ricardo R wrote: »
    I got a 2.1 in a "mickey mouse" social science degree with little direct relevance to most jobs at a top university, and resultantly got offers in events management, media, finance, law etc, all of which have nothing directly to do with my degree. It was the university name on the CV that got me offers, not the course - which I sometimes don't even mention, just put BA (Hons).

    But it can also work the other way around, as someone else was saying, if it's a well known good course at perhaps a second tier university then it still has the same potential to get you a job.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But it can also work the other way around, as someone else was saying, if it's a well known good course at perhaps a second tier university then it still has the same potential to get you a job.
    Yes definitely, I don't dispute that, what I do dispute is people blindly saying that course matters more than university - you can do virtually any course whatsoever at a top 10-20 university and have a lot of doors open in entirely unrelated fields.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, i agree. When i was applying for accountancy placements they were mainly open to any applicant, although you did often have to do an aptitude test to prove you could add up! The fact that my degree was related gave me a bit of an edge, but certainly didn't guarantee me a job and i probably could have done anything else at the same uni and still been offered an interview. In fact, when i was in the final stage for one of them, i was against someone who did biology at my uni.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ricardo R wrote: »
    Yes definitely, I don't dispute that, what I do dispute is people blindly saying that course matters more than university - you can do virtually any course whatsoever at a top 10-20 university and have a lot of doors open in entirely unrelated fields.

    Totally agree. Unless you're doing something that needs a definite degree (Doctor, Engineer, Actuary, Programmer), employers are really looking for evidence that you can apply yourself, work hard and well with others and have some capacity for lateral thought. The obvious choice of career with my degree - translation or interpreting is about the last thing I would ever want to do. So I landed myself a job doing consultancy with RBS - and I know from my final assessment day I was the only arts student there and I still got the job. Arts degrees perhaps are less specific than science degrees but I don't have any stats to back that up.
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