Age Verification - Upcoming Change

Comments

• independent_ Community Champion Posts: 9,256 Supreme Poster

  March 8

  That seems to be the main concern here - that no other services are doing this. If other services were beginning to implement this as well, perhaps people wouldn’t feel this way. It feels at the moment like it’s not legislation, it’s policy. They are 2 completely different things. Age verification for dangerous things, like alcohol, cigarettes and knives, is the law. Age verification for energy drinks and OTC medications is the company policy of many retailers, but it’s not the law. It winds me up no end when people try to say policies are law. It’s not illegal for someone over 25 to be here, and it’s not illegal for someone outside of the UK to be here, either. It’s outside of your own remit, so it’s policy, not law.

  “Sometimes the people around you won’t understand your journey. They don’t need to, it’s not for them.”

  8
• Amy22 Posts: 5,069 Part of The Furniture

  March 8

  I just feel like it's always one thing after another right now and soon enough there won't be anyone on the mix anymore which will be very sad to see. What happened to the whole community feel of things and what happened to actually listening to young people. It feels like both of those values have been chucked out of the window right now and pushed aside. Its very disappointing to see for a young persons mental health charity actually. I know that the actual mix community is working hard right now and I feel sorry for all the mods and staff on here who are trying their best right now despite certain higher ups clearly not doing their jobs properly and just deciding to make things worse on here. Firstly my main issue is to do with uploading a picture of yourself, there are a lot of vulnerable young people on here who may not want to take a photo of themselves because of certain reasons alongside staying anonymous. The reason why I joined this community was because it was anonymous whereas other support services weren't. It worries me to think what is next after the age verification, wanting our postcodes etc. This isn't right at all, in fact it's wrong to do. It's probably causing a lot of unnecessary stress for users right now alongside their main worries and concerns.
  
  Also, I'd thought I'd share a bit of advice in a way from being a previous member of a charity in my town which supported neurodiverse adults which is now closed. Their CEO too left and a new CEO stepped in. Things started going down hill from there and previously a while ago too. The reason why the charity failed was because of a lack of communication and a lack of passion for the people attending the place. Hence, why it closed its door for good. Now your probably wondering why I am talking about a charity in my area and what's this got to do with this post. But let me tell you, I see the same pattern that happened with that charity with this one and I fear the same thing is going to happen eventually because of a poor lack of communication and passion for young people. So if you want to continue doing this then be prepared for a rocky road ahead thats all in saying. This is a young people's site and it should continue to help us by actually listening to us and making sure our voices are heard. Now I'm not asking for anything fancy from you buy what I am asking is that we are heard more and that users have more of a say so in some decisions on the boards especially mods as we are the ones using this service the most. Plus some people may not also have any ID either or passports etc so I don't know how the ID aspect would work for that. Plus I agree with you @independent_ on the whole AI analysing the age as it has been proven to be quite faulty and has analysed people wrongly especially when it comes to age. Also, anyone could technically upload a picture of someone else and use that, it doesn't stop people from catfishing, the same with the whole geofencing thing people can tick the yes box quite easily.
  
  Overall, I fear for what the future of the mix will be (that's if there is a future for it as dark as that sounds I wouldent be suprised). However, us users need to continue to stick together and fight against this. Never stop amplifying your voices and this goes out to the community staff and mods here too as well because I know you have worked so hard.

  Just a person who likes pop culture and films

  6
• JJLemon18 Community Champion Posts: 2,097 Boards Champion

  March 8

  independent_ wrote: »

  That seems to be the main concern here - that no other services are doing this. If other services were beginning to implement this as well, perhaps people wouldn’t feel this way. It feels at the moment like it’s not legislation, it’s policy. They are 2 completely different things. Age verification for dangerous things, like alcohol, cigarettes and knives, is the law. Age verification for energy drinks and OTC medications is the company policy of many retailers, but it’s not the law. It winds me up no end when people try to say policies are law. It’s not illegal for someone over 25 to be here, and it’s not illegal for someone outside of the UK to be here, either. It’s outside of your own remit, so it’s policy, not law.

  
  I wonder what things we've all agreed to in the very necessary consent form for the merger...

  Believe in me - who believes in you

  6
• Siena Posts: 15,759 Skive's The Limit

  March 9 edited March 9

  A lot of people struggling with their mental health find it difficult to even take a picture of themselves at all whether that’s for social media or to send to a friend cause of insecurity - my sister never takes a picture of herself yet she is very pretty but all her social media accounts are stuck on her 13 year old self when she’s 26 and she doesn’t even struggle with her mental health and you’ll expecting people to send a picture of themselves to an anonymous website that they probably joined to speak about things freely without judgement and no one knowing who you are. Crazy concept if you ask me.

  “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley

  7
• Faolan Posts: 189 Helping Hand

  March 12

  Why are we waiting so long for our questions to be answered? Not only on this thread but the geofencing one too.. sure, some questions were asked nearly 2 weeks ago on there.
  
  I’m not trying to dig here. I have utmost respect for the community team and my messages aren’t for you. I’m sorry you’re getting the brunt of this because you’re the middle man. My annoyance here is with the people who have to answer our q’s. I don’t understand why we’re being left waiting. What is more important than putting the communities mind at ease. Like, are they having to research their replies ? Surely they should know this information from the top of their heads and can pass it onto you to tell us.. they could put our minds at rest within 5 short minutes. Can they not spare that, no?
  
  Theres some extremely valid questions on both threads.

  6
• independent_ Community Champion Posts: 9,256 Supreme Poster

  March 12 edited March 12

  I think I made a similar point on another thread a couple of days ago @Faolan, though I admit I can't remember which. In addition, if the replies need research from whoever, surely that's info they should already have. Or is it like the over 25s policy... a policy that's being introduced while unfinished and not fully researched?
  
  Edit: It was this very thread! Duh. I said similar to this on saturday.

  “Sometimes the people around you won’t understand your journey. They don’t need to, it’s not for them.”

  1
• Faolan Posts: 189 Helping Hand

  March 12

  @independent_
  
  It’s shocking matey this new management.. and the longer they’re leaving us stewing, the more tense were getting & overall it’s making the community teams job harder
  
  The communication has been terrible, there’s absolutely 0 valid reason why we should have to wait 2 weeks + for answers on our questions regarding massive community changes which directly impact us.
  
  Did they think we wouldn't have questions or something ? Lol.
  
  I agree, it’s info they should already have to hand. Clearly they don’t😂

  1
• independent_ Community Champion Posts: 9,256 Supreme Poster

  March 12

  @Faolan you're totally right. The longer this goes on, the longer we're waiting for the big questions to be answered, the longer there is for bad feeling to develop and arguably smaller issues elsewhere become much bigger too.
  
  Maybe I'm looking at it through rose tinted glasses and I know I keep referring to the mix of old, so excuse that, but I was having a look at an old thread recently where lots of questions were being asked and discussion had. The thread was quite heated in the end, but people certainly didn't have to wait this long for answers. I wouldn't even say this is a heated discussion between us members, but it is growing and eventually it's gonna become pages and pages of thoughts which need answers. So like you say making the job of the community team at least 10 times harder than it needs to be.

  “Sometimes the people around you won’t understand your journey. They don’t need to, it’s not for them.”

  2
• Faolan Posts: 189 Helping Hand

  March 12

  
  @independent_
  You’re right.. because even the logo change had a few of us feeling miffed. It’s a tiny change but on top of these big changes that haven’t been properly discussed, it does feel big. For a lot of us, we made the mix our home, and it feels like SHOUT is trampling all over that for their own gain… with little to no thought about those of us who love / loved this place.
  
  I remember changes happening before and V being ready and open for conversation. It felt safe and transparent. Why can’t we have that anymore?
  
  I really really hope future investors are seeing this, like hearing it straight from the service users voices
  
  With how things are going, I really cannot see the mix lasting another year. The decline since the merger has been rapid.
  
  I’m kinda gutted Chris handed The Mix over to people who have let it get this poor. It’s sad like, it used to help so many people out of dark places 💔

  4
• independent_ Community Champion Posts: 9,256 Supreme Poster

  March 12 edited March 12

  @Faolan I’ll give the logo thread a read too, as a screen reader user I’d completely overlooked it
  
  FWIW, this is the thread I am on about: https://community.themix.org.uk/discussion/3597167/the-importance-of-being-genuine/p3
  
  It was the big issue at the time and the elephant in the room, and at the time many didn’t feel it was being dealt with perfectly, but nothing is perfect. But it’s an example of how communication used to be. If anyone feels they don’t want this linked for whatever reason (perhaps one of your own posts)) please let me know. But it does feel important.
  
  Edit: looking again, the first 2 responses on page 1 illustrate my point perfectly.

  “Sometimes the people around you won’t understand your journey. They don’t need to, it’s not for them.”

  1
• Faolan Posts: 189 Helping Hand

  March 13

  I wonder what things we've all agreed to in the very necessary consent form for the merger

  
  I thought it was interesting you said this @JJLemon18 . I always feel a bit freaked about small prints.
  
  I tried to read some about SHOUTS policies and found a really insightful article, if any of you are interested. I’ll link it here -
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/feb/19/mental-health-helpline-funded-by-royals-shared-users-conversations
  
  So it looks like SHOUT and MHI have a history of being absolutely brutal at communicating changes, especially when it comes to what they’re doing behind the scenes with our data.
  
  I quoted this bit here because I find it kinda funny 😅😂
  

  “More than 10.8 million messages from 271,445 conversations between February 2018 and April 2020 were used in a project with Imperial College London aimed at creating tools that use artificial intelligence to predict behaviour, including for instance, suicidal thoughts.”

  
  The flipping love AI😂 it’s actually kinda scary.
  
  
  
  TL;DR
  
  Shout guaranteed that they would NEVER share individual conversations
  
  THEN
  
  Shout secretly 🥷 deleted their policy and decided to hand over over 10 million FULL conversations from vulnerable users to researchers / AI training
  
  When they were called out for being unethical they basically said
  
  Well actually … 🤓☝🏻…. Users technically agreed via our t&c’s
  
  …….
  
  There’s also a whole section on there about how MHI is linked with a ‘for profit’ organisation. It makes for an interesting read.
  
  
  Anyway, there’s a great bit in the article which says
  
  

  “Trust is everything in health – and in mental health most of all. When you start by saying in your FAQs that ‘individual conversations cannot and will not ever be shared’; and suddenly move to training AI on hundreds of thousands of ‘full conversations’, you’ve left behind the feelings and expectations of the vulnerable people you serve.”

  
  They released their own statement there so you can form your own opinions
  

  5
• independent_ Community Champion Posts: 9,256 Supreme Poster

  March 13

  That article raises many questions not only about MHI and shout, but perhaps even more importantly, the external site the mix are going to be using to verify age. I mentioned this in one of my very early posts on this subject, that we need to be told which site it is and allowed to read that sites privacy policy. Small print is scary for many, but it is so so important where our personal data is concerned. Plus, there’s a difference between personal data and sensitive personal data, which I believe mental health and disability falls under.

  “Sometimes the people around you won’t understand your journey. They don’t need to, it’s not for them.”

  4
• Amy22 Posts: 5,069 Part of The Furniture

  March 16

  Faolan wrote: »

  @independent_
  You’re right.. because even the logo change had a few of us feeling miffed. It’s a tiny change but on top of these big changes that haven’t been properly discussed, it does feel big. For a lot of us, we made the mix our home, and it feels like SHOUT is trampling all over that for their own gain… with little to no thought about those of us who love / loved this place.
  
  I remember changes happening before and V being ready and open for conversation. It felt safe and transparent. Why can’t we have that anymore?
  
  I really really hope future investors are seeing this, like hearing it straight from the service users voices
  
  With how things are going, I really cannot see the mix lasting another year. The decline since the merger has been rapid.
  
  I’m kinda gutted Chris handed The Mix over to people who have let it get this poor. It’s sad like, it used to help so many people out of dark places 💔

  
  I definitely feel like Shout have been more dominating and taking control of the mix changing it for their own personal gain in a way. So your definitely right with that because I have noticed that a lot recently and its worrying. The worst part is how atrocious the actual communication is because we haven't been given straight proper answers or an apology at all which is shocking

  Just a person who likes pop culture and films

  3
• toffuna101 Posts: 1,801 Extreme Poster

  March 24

  WHAT.
  i have just come back to this website today and im reading all of this and im absolutely shocked. why do i have to insert my id or take a picture of myself? this is not good... i look like a 12 year old...

  2