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No chance but I can make the title relevant..
May have a breather tonight and jump into the debate tomorrow
Even on paper, they are people who have generally spend many years paying into the system, many of whom own their own homes, funded their own pensions and are now sometimes spending their life savings helping out the younger generations. We should be respecting them and helping them, not trying to off them!
Not to mention that 72 isn't that old.
Godwin's Law!!
It's interesting to see that I'm not the only person who'd like to have the choice of making a decision along these lines for myself. The main issue with that would be that it feels like currently it would come with all of the criticism as suicide.
LMAO. Good call.
Are you autistic?
No, she's an engineer (though, some people might argue they're very similar). I know exactly where she's coming from.
The only way you can still be offended after realising that is if you think that there are things people shouldn't even think about in any way, and I consider that to be an insult to our sentience.
I think its particularly offensive because the elderly are already a disadvantaged powerless group in general, and its an issue that has been bothering me for quite a while, the way they are both treated and thought of. This thread and the unpopular opinions one, has just completely exaggerated this. I feel like the elderly are already dehumanised and thought of as worthless and just a burden, and its not that I dont think people should think about things, but I AM shocked that anyone thought it would be a decent appropriate debate.
Its not as if its a debate on whether its ok to just murder people, and the rights and wrongs of indiscriminate murder, but the fact that the target of the debate are an already disadvantaged dehumanised group, just seems particularly callous and cold
I am ok with people starting offensive threads, as long as i can call them on it
The elderly thing is a more scary thought because it just shows the ultimate capitalist viewpoint that people are cattle, only worthy of putting down once their use as a worker is over. It IS different BECAUSE they are vulnerable, and the group making this "light hearted hypothetical" debate, are a group that ultimately have the power and are so much more priveleged.
(sorry i cant spell privileged consistently)
Id probably put it along the same lines of offensiveness as maybe going onto a mens web forum in saudi arabia and them having a hearty old hypotheitcal discussion about culling women, and then being all surprised if some onlookers got offended.
But why stop there? Autistic, disabled or mentally damaged children cost us a fortune .. for the rest of their lives, and some of them live pretty long lives too. Or youngsters who are paralysed after accidents. Let's cull the fucking lot! :thumb:
It's just a silly thing to bring up as a 'debate'.
Some of the greatest artists, scientists etc work right up until they day they die, well into their 80s and beyond, all still contributing to our society. If life is reduced to just a measure of 'costs', then one has a very poor level of human emapthy.
There's a word for that. Sociopath.
I agree. some 'intangible human compassion' I still can't quite believe what I'm reading.
Nothing wrong with decribing compassion that way. Its unquantifiable, unpredictable, given inexplicable weight.
It mattters, but how and why?
I've clearly failed to express myself - when I said some kind of intangible human compassion, I wasn't knocking it. That intangible human compassion is what I think makes us all civilised human beings. I know the elderly are vulnerable, I know that they are sometimes regarded as an inefficient use of resources and I'm not genuinely proposing that we go ahead and do it.
I do genuinely think that it makes for a really interesting discussion though. Suzy's outrage kind of makes that point. It's a truly horrific concept (I'd hope to everyone) but still, if you look at it in a completely cold blooded manner it can look like a great idea. The point has been made in recent discussions about putting down animals when they get to the point that they are suffering - and that's generally pretty well accepted. Apply a similar concept to people and we all instinctively know it's not a good idea. Yet if you look for logical rational reasons - there aren't many there.
I think that's a good thing about people - it's what shows we're not robots.
(So there's no need to worry - I'm not going to try and turn anyones granny off while they're sleeping).
I imagine that the OP probably takes some benefit herself from living in a civilised social society with inherent rights given at birth, and a fairly sure feeling that she isnt just going to be murdered for no reason and everyone to just srug and say "well why not"
Why shouldn't I run someone off the road for pissing me off? Why shouldn't I punch that stupid bitch blocking the aisle in tesco in the fucking ovary? Why shouldn't I?
That's kind of a positivist perspective though; acknowledging there are other ways of thinking or seeing things is an important part of getting to grips with these kinds of debates in being able to see a full picture.
If anything its quite interesting in that it shows perhaps the limitations of STEM expertise (where largely philosophy is seldom touched on; my comp sci friends don't actually understand non-positivist approaches) when delving into the social sciences.
Though I do think that suzy has done the same in having her view and not trying to step back and see where others are coming from, just from a different angle.
It sounds a bit crap to say JUST BECAUSE, but we live in a society. We all have to get along. We have social rules. We reap the benefits of our society and we live a very relaxed life fairly assured of our safety. We bring our children up to respect other peoples rights as much as their own, and we encourage them to understand the reason for it.
Its not some obscure hard to work out moralistic version of right and wrong. Its the basic stuff that keeps us all safe
I like to wonder about stuff like this. Fuck wouldn't life be easier if... sort of thing. Sometimes brutal, sometime benign, sometimes funny, sometimes fucking horrific. But still. Engineers love the what if.