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(sorry for the thread hijack peeps!)
Also if medals are being given out, shouldn't all public sector workers (who ultimately work for her) get one? Better still, don't give them out at all.
I can see the Army (and the Navy and I suppose if pushed the RAF) because of their closeness to the monarchy. I can't really see why the police should get them, probably not their support staff and PCSOs as well and certainly not all public sector workers
All frontline officers got one, including pcsos and specials. No idea what the decision making process behind it was. Support staff got a commemorative medallion.
Yeah, I could make an allowance for the Armed Forces but that's about it. It should also be all current serving (like G) if we are giving them out at all. IMHO though, medals should be earned in combat rather than handed out, but what do I know?!
I am my own queen... And king, respectively.
But hey, I got a day off work, so I sat at home getting pissed, watching the concert and following some brilliant tweets.
Tweet of the night?
@Dianainheaven
Go on Elton - do my song. Fuck this shit up.
Seriously... I think the royal family are a royal waste of time... But then so is a lot of stuff.
But modernity isn't an aim in itself, it's only an aim if modernisation improves what went before. And that seems to me where the argument for Republicanism fails, in that it never seems to be able to produce a strong case for why we'd be better off...
Yeah thats what I meant, specifically for us lot out in the desert.
In fairness, the image and attitude of the Royals has increased a hell of a lot since they bumped off......erm I mean since Diana died. I'm a royalist however I probably won't be bothered either way when Charles gets voted in. But when William becomes King, I reckon I'll have a feeling of pride. He and Kate have been marketed the right way IMO.
I'm not all full of piss and vinegar over the royal family as I think largely they're an irrelevance, but if push came to shove I'd get rid of them; if we're to aid the slow march of progress and move towards a more egalitarian, secular and democratic nation then the royal family are gonna have to go.
See, I've never got that argument as Sweden, Denmark and Norway are regularly trumpeted as much more egalitarian than the UK, but all are monarchies (whilst the US, of course, is a Republic)
Because colonialism does play a part as to how some countries are so affluent... And the foreign policies of some countries interfere with other countries to keep in shitty governments because of business interest. If you look at a lot of countries which have the least equality, or single party states, they were previously British, French, or Dutch colonies. You can't honestly say that if they had a monarch, things would be better? As it's so much more complex than that.
Note: Nepal was a kingdom until fairly recently and has a lot of human rights and income issues. Papau New Guinea also has a monarch, North Korea may as well have as it's a single party state and the current leader was chosen on his bloodline.
No, I'm saying that having a (constitutional*) monarchy is irrelevant to them being more equal, it neither leads to it or obstructs it.
On you colonialism point isn't one of the biggest one-party states China (and its also pretty unequal, communism in practice you could say) and it was never part of any Empire - it's less equal than Brazil that was. And the parts of Empire include vibrant democracies such as Canada and less vibrant, but still pretty good democracies such as India and given that much of the world outside Europe (and come to that inside Europe) is an ex-colony of somewhere you can say many ex-colonies are either fantastically succesful (USA, Australia), middling (Kenya, Mexico) or complete basket-cases (Somalia), so if you're looking for why some countries do well and others don't colonialism is only part of the story (and not all bad).
Which of course is still a long way away from whether the UK should have a monarchy or not.
* and to be clear I'm arguing that the UK is better off with a constitutional monarch, not that we'd be better off having an absolutist feudal monarch. So the argument that Nepal was better off getting rid of its feudalist king and replacing it with a (flawed) republic is as much one I'd agree with as that North Korea would be better off getting rid of its current leadership (or come to that Cuba or dozens of other states where one man or small group of men hold unelected power)
Yes, because we are her/his majesties armed forces.
* Would it be called "kingdom" without a monarchy?
I'm not arguing that having no monarchy means you're guaranteed a more egalitarian society, obviously that's ridiculous. I am saying for the most egalitarian society having no monarchy is a piece of that jigsaw.
I see where you are coming from, which (and correct me if I am wrong) is that you can have the egalitarianism of social democracy within a monarchy (such as Sweden), but that the pure egalitarianism of communism/socialism cannot exist within a monarchy - and I'd certainly agree in theory as an argument against the monarchy it works.
However, given that the evidence seems to be that the British people don't want a society even as egalitarian as Sweden and they certainly don't think that an even more egalitarian (communistic) society would be a good thing I don't think its the monarchy which is the stumbling block and it doesn't work as an argument in practice.
I'm still going to hold to my position I've never heard a good argument for republicanism in the UK
What I'm arguing is that I think any monarch is unnecessary and it doesn't make a country better or worse, there are so many factors. I was replying to your comment on arguments for Republicanism failing. I see our monarchy as one of the many wastes of cash and time in this country. I come from Wales originally and I don't think I met many people who gave a toss about them to be honest.
Evidently. I just saw the word monarch, but agree that context plays a part.