If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options
For anyone interested in the Israel situation
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
The latest political outlook is fairly right-wing. No one party had a majority to form the knesset (government) and so it depends on a coalition. Now, it's not for me to speculate what that coalition exactly will be, but Al-Jazeera has painted it's own prediction that would indicate that the right-of-centre Likud may form a coalition with more nationalist groups. To compare it to the UK, it's like the conservative party forming a coalition with UKIP (and possibly BNP? Not exactly, but we have less parties with seats in parliament so it's hard to make an exact comparison).
Here's the article:
http://english.aljazeera.com/news/articles/39/Few_peacemakers_in_Israel_s_Knesset.html
At the same time, the BBC reports that Hamas are pushing for a long-lasting peace deal (perhaps trying to get it through before the new government?) Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7887380.stm
Here's the article:
http://english.aljazeera.com/news/articles/39/Few_peacemakers_in_Israel_s_Knesset.html
The incoming Knesset will have a solid right-wing bloc, made up of Likud with twenty-seven seats, Yisrael Beiteinu with fifteen seats, two ultra-Orthodox parties with sixteen seats and two smaller nationalist parties with seven seats. This bloc has four more than the sixty-one-seat threshold needed to form a coalition.
The center bloc was able to muster forty-one seats. This bloc consists of Kadima with twenty-eight seats and Labor with thirteen seats. The remaining fourteen seats were won by liberal, leftist and Arab national parties.
At the same time, the BBC reports that Hamas are pushing for a long-lasting peace deal (perhaps trying to get it through before the new government?) Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7887380.stm
0
Comments
I think that it will portrayed as a disappointing but understandbale response to the election, and actions, of Hamas by some people. It will probably be portrayed as evidence of their lack of interest in a peaceful solution by others.
Well not exactly Jim, it's in that Al Jazeera article which is why I said 'apparently' and the bit about press freedom etc. was my own speculation. I should have made it clearer.
Imagine if in the UK though there was a law that revoked citizenship depending if you were loyal or not to the country. Where would the line end? If it were the UK I have no doubt the PCs would be arresting journalists left right and centre, 1984 style.
Here's the 'source'
I am not sure that would actually happen - but *if* this right-ring coalition is formed that would seem to be the general direction Israel would be headed in which I for one would argue is not the best direction for peace and freedom. That's my 2p though.
The difference is nobody said that electing hamas was 'understandable' considering the circumstances, and many countries refuse to have international relations with them full stop. I think Aladdin's point was more broad in the sense that it will likely be another show of double standards (*if* this right wing coalition goes in..).
They're fighting the terrorist regime of Hamas, which wants to see their nation obliterated. Naturally, most people don't particularly fancy being blown to pieces by rockets illegally fired into their country. Inevitably, they're going to vote for the political parties which will defend their nation - and I don't blame them one bit.
Now I shall sit here and wait for someone to accuse me of being a zionist Nazi.
Israelis could choose to vote for a party that seeks to secure a permanent peace with the Palestnians. Instead they continue to elect parties that advocate the continuation of the illegal occupation of Palestine.
The Palestinians could be accused of the same thing with Hamas of course. So long as we're clear that there is no difference between the two sides.
I think it's wrong of the whole world to view Hamas as simply a terrorist regime. They are on a level playing field with the Israeli government. But one is seen as legitimate and 'doing what it needs to in order to survive' and the other is seen as a bunch of mentalists who are doing it for no real reason other than they like killing. Don't you think members of hamas probably have families? Before all the politics started, Jews and Arabs lived together in communities. It was only the last 60 years where it has been Israel = Jews, Palestine = Arabs.
Ok so because they've got beards and dark skin if they want peace we should blow them up, because that will show them who is boss? I'm not sure where you're going with this.
Israel will simply not contemplate withdrawing to to the Green Line and time after time ignores such peace offers.
What else is Hamas supposed to do (other than, arguably, get the same PR company the Israeli government employs)?
Israel's have voted in a right-wing government, Hamas have voted in a right wing government.
It's all the Israeli's fault. It's all Hamas fault.
Hamas has no option but to fight. Israel has no option but to fight.
The west ignores Israeli atrocities. The west ignores Hamas atrocities.
Honestly you could swap the names of the countries and make the same arguments all day long.
I honestly wonder if I get to live to a grand old age I would ever know peace in the ME. Doesn't look too hopeful.
It was Nixon who brought an end to Vietnam.
Neither De Klerk nor Gorbachev were brought into end their respective systems...
"The western world gives $3bn+ in weapons support to [country]. They have cut formal diplomatic relations with the elected party [party]. They consider [party] to be nothing more than a terrorist group."
Just nitpicking though, your general argument is true.
qft
The Arab world supplies money to Hamas and doesn't have diplomatic relations with Israel. The Western world supplies money to Israel and doesn't have diplomatic relations with Hamas
We may as well just go the whole way down that route and say 'what the hell does it matter, they're both as bad as each other, lets just leave them to it'. They are both bad, but not both as bad as each other. Not that I'm trying to say that either side is justified but you're just saying 'yea. both stupid. leave them to their own devices' when blatantly one gets effectively carte blanche to treat it like an 'internal matter' and only blowing up UN buildings has caused an investigation, whereas the other is universally condemned.
Various Arab states (and Iran) have funded suicide bombers, ie weapons deliberately used against civilians.
Give an inch to terrorists and they'll take a mile. That's what happened in Northern Ireland. History will repeat itself if Israel shows weakness at this stage.
But from the way you talk you'd be forgiven for thinking they are just terrorists and nothing more. Most start off as normal people frustrated with the status quo. Like I said in another thread, is anthromorphism or something, where you perceive the enemy as not human, and then it becomes easier to order the killing of a thousand 'nazis' or 'commies' or 'terrorists in caves' etc.
Although we may be drifting off course, I started the thread specifically relating to the Israeli elections, and my speculation that it may stand in the way of peace in the future.
The current sitrep is the release of Gilad Shalit *may* be on the cards in exchange for opened borders but it's pretty tense atm. Imagine if a new right wing government was formed in the next few days, that peace deal would likely be thrown out in exchange for some rhetoric about 'No Surrender'. It's easy to shout about no surrender when you have them pinned in and outgunned, though.
Yeah, so both pretty much inaccurate and simplistic? Let's not descend into the same old insults back and forth, probably best to keep this thread focused on the political realities of the election and its ramifications.
No it shows that sometimes you have to wade in shit and hold your nose to get peace. But my family went to dozens of funerals. I don't have too. It may not be a perfect peace, and I certainly don't like McGuiness being a Minister of the Crown, rather than rotting in jail. But it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
On that note, I got an email from avaaz today. I don't think they are particularly political - they're a humanitarian group - but they basically said letting the right wing would be the worst thing that could happen. Without wanting to repeat the whole email, they had read the following sources which starts to paint a scary picture, particularly the nationalistic erspective on making someone who is of a certain ethnic background 'prove' their loyalty to Israel.
"Key to who will govern Israel: Avigdor Lieberman", Christian Science Monitor (12 February 2009):
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0212/p01s04-wome.html
Ha'aretz: "Unite to block Lieberman's march on Jerusalem" (1 February 2009)
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060124.html
See this Hebrew University poll published in December 2008:
http://www.bicom.org.uk/background/opinion-polls/truman-psr-poll--16-december-2008