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Having a fair trial is different from sentencing.
They had the fair trial and when sentencing the judge can take account of outside issues - including the deterrence factor on others and sending a message than certain actions are not tolerated....
You'll often find that football fans get dissproportionately high sentences as well, compared to other gang violence.
Of course I'm not, don't be silly. You're not getting the point here, there is a potential within Islam and particularly Islamism where violence can be advocated against others, that's how religion is a factor.
Why do you think that? Part of the purpose of sentencing is deterrence and showing society's dissaproval of certain actions.
which is done by consistant sentencing....
it's like the manditory sentencing for say knife crime, what about if you kill someone with a fork, you get 5 years less :rolleyes:
Soliciting and conspiracy to murder? Nope, first case probably of this particular nature.
I'm not quite sure of you're point which seems to contradict itself. If all else is equal you kill someone with a knife or fork you'll get exactly the same sentence - life.
If however you killed someone with a knife after years of abuse you'll likely to get a quicker chance of being let out than if you were a paid to murder someone and decided to use a fork as the most efficient killing implement.
The reason why knife crimes are generally punished more severely is that it suggests you were going equipped for violence (same as gun crimes) - only a fool would go out equipped to use violence with a fork. The idea of harsher sentences for people going equipped is partially to deter people from going equipped....
Sentencing only needs to be consistent with other crimes where the circumstances are the same. Unless you are suggesting that someone who stole several million pounds should be treated the same as a shoplifter who stole several pounds....
You mean like threat to murder?
Do you think I should be sent to jail because I've said a few times on this forum so-and-so should be put against a wall and shot?
Would there be anyone left on this forum if we were to apply the law as strictly as it was applied in this case?
Do they count the internet is the incitement cases? The whole thing does loom over the freedom of speech debate, I can give it that.
There's a difference between one person shouting a racist load of abuse about a football match at the end of a game than an organised march intended to strike fear and intimidation into people everywhere. And after seeing the treatment some people get for stupid idiotic slips of the tongue, i've no doubt a disgruntled football fan would be arrested and charged for inciting racial hatred.
1) I've parked outside my disabled grannies house to help take her to the shops. In the few minutes I'm in helping her with her coat et al a traffic warden tickects my car. I storm out and yell "If you don't get off this street I'm going to kill you."
2) I'm a member of the UVF, I notice a teenage Catholic girl visiting her Protestant boyfriend. As she rings his doorbell I sidle up to her and say "If you don't get off this street I'm going to kill you."
Both cases the same thing was said - but are they the same? Or is context king?
You answer your own question. Context.
Yeah, we should deport all people who are on the dole and refuse to work, all British people who dislike the government too.
:yes:
But they're not brown.
Now, what are we trying to say about Muslims? That being one amounts to being a member of a terrorist organisation? Will a demonstration by Muslims always be about violence and threats then?
Even though there were very small in this country, there were actually one or two demos supporting the US' bombing of Iraq in the build-up to the war. Do you really seriously think that the warmongering neo-cons chanting for American bombs to start raining in Baghdad would have been arrested, let alone jailed? Why is supporting the bombing of Iraq or Lebanon okay but the bombing of USA a crime punishable by 6 years in jail?
If that was all... But that's not the context is it? It was part of a demo in which specific threats were made (and one of the demonstrators dressed up as suicide bomber) during a period in which Danish embassies were being attacked and in the aftermath of terrorist bombings in the UK.
The people charged were attempting to sew fear and produce an appeasing mentality in the UK, not to put across a legimate viewpoint.
It should be equal law and justice for all. Whilst I may have supported the war at first for varying reasons, I didn't relish it and certainly would never have considered taking to the streets and dancing in glee. Those people did and should have been punished.
But quietly supporting your country in a dangerous time, and openly calling for the murder of people who live in that country are 2 entirely different things.
Er no, but then the majority of the protesters weren't arrested or charged were they? Just those breaking specific laws...
And the majoirty of protesters weren't charged were they?
Was that a threat to British people? It wasn't the bombing of the UK which was the crime, but ones specifically related to the UK...
How is the bombing of foreign nations a threat against UK citizens? Either we treat all such demands as criminal or we don't. The legal system cannot and must not cherry pick prosecution cases depending on what foreign nation was named in the chant.
Er no.
From the BBC article
Four people have been convicted....
3 for soliciting to murder threatening to bomb the UK (not the US) and 1 for racial hatred....
Now as I said I think 6 years is excessive, but they certainly should have been jailed.
On your comments about shooting people, I've always taken them as tongue in cheek rather than literal threats.
if you're saying there the same as the threats by these people I'll be making sure Jim V and the police are notified...:thumb:
TBH I don't really want to live alongside racists, homophobes, blokes called "kevin" or "trevor", people who don't cut their grass ever, people who use their garden as a dump, people who think that deportation is a way to control opinions...
Living in a free country sucks really.
someone not cutting their grass to the way you like it is slightly different to someone wanting the UK to be bombed and for innocent people to die.