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Just because you don't agree with torture doesn't make you anti-American. If that were the case we'd be anti-180 other countries (or more) too.
in the same way you cant be sure he was tortured?
and its not just the confession, there was lots of details of what he was up to long before the Americans got hold of him..
You'd be far happier if you lived in a country like Zimbabwe you know? In there they don't have any time for human rights and concepts of 'fairness'.
:rolleyes:
No. I'm for never allowing torture and for ensuring basic human rights such as the right to a fair trial and the right not to be unlawfully kidnapped and imprisoned are upheld.
Because otherwise we're not better than the people we seek to punish.
you really think the Americans just picked a random person to blame it on???:banghead:
What makes you think that torturing people is 'justice'?
for a start, i dont say go and find some random person to treat in that way, the fact is that he is a member of al-Qaeda, and now he has to deal what the shit he has got himself into,
the other thing is that there is still no prove that he has been tortured, just his word on it, but there is without a doubt prove that he is part of al-Qaeda.
This man, as he has not been convicted by any court, is not a terrorist. The US didn't bother to try him for these crimes, they just went and tortured him. He may well be guilty, but we will never know, because nobody bothered to seek justice.
We do only have the US' say-so that he is a member of Al Qaeda, and that he's a terrorist. The CIA have a long history of getting the wrong man. No evidence to support anything has been placed into the public domain, and the simple fact is I don't believe any authority that bases its judgment on hidden evidence and on torture.
If I was tortured I would plead guilty to terrorism whereas I'm about as much a terrorist as Jess the Cat.
LOL!
and it wasn’t just the US that was after him because of his membership to AL Qaeda, the British Secret Intelligence Service have been after him for years, so have a number of middle eastern countries.
“No evidence to support anything has been placed into the public domain”
What about the large number of statements he himself made before being captured stating his involvement with Al-Qaeda? His statements to other people who have come forward?
Are you aware of the disturbingly large number of Guantanamo ex-prisoners who were completely innocent?
Loonies have come forward to claim crimes throughout history.
But that doesn't matter. You keep missing an important point. Several, in fact:
- any civilised society must believe and exercise human rights, reject torture, offer the right to a fair trial and avoid illegal operations, killings and kidnappings. Regardless of the possible crimes the subject has commited.
- any government that ignores the above is a barbarian savage regime no better than the 'terrorists' it seeks to punish. And anyone who supports such behaviour is not much better either.
Torturing people isn't justice, and I would point out that the Pakistani security services are not noted for their compassion and honesty.
You are priceless.
Is alledged to have planned etc.
Q. How do you know that this man has "confessed" to all these crimes?
A. Because his accusers have released a transcript of him admitting it.
Is this your idea of justice in the 21st Century? And how does your comment of "whatever they do to him is justified" stack up with your "i dont go out planing on killing people" when this man faces the death penalty...?
at the end of the day he is a member of al-Qaeda,
Al-Qaeda are a militant terrorist organization
this make him a terrorist
for a start he wasn’t captured 5 years ago, second his only been in American custody at Guantanamo Bay for 6 months.
And I am not saying that torturing people is ok, what i am saying is that what this man as admitted to doing( before being captured) is a lot worse,
A terrorist??? :nervous:
You're scaring me now.
Release the hounds! Prepare the electrodes! Make sure the tongs are red-hot!
You really are a moron if you think human rights are bullshit.
Why don't you talk to those British people, for instance, who "confessed" to having planted bombs in Saudi Arabia after they were tortured? Go tell them we should stop worrying about this "human rights bullshit" and see if they agree.
No they don't, they are working on the principle - one which has been central to western democracy and human rights - that people are innocent until proven guilty, or at least given some sembence of a fair trial. Or even allowed to defend themselves against accusations made against them.
There are probably terrorists in G-bay, but its equally wrong to assume that there are guilty men there as there is no evidence (other than that extracted by torture) to indicate this. The point is that we have no idea whether anyone held at G-bay is inncoent or guilty, because every principle and method of justice and law has been abandonned, and we only have the US government's word (which is worth what?) to indicate that they are in any way guilty of "terrorism."
ok, i agree that there are some men held at G-Bay that shouldnt be, and in a perfect world this wouldnt happend, but you have to agree in this case, the one of "Khalid Sheikh Mohammed" it is more then just evidence extracted by torture??
Is it? I've not seen anything other than stuff released by the US government, normally there is some evidence for the defence too. Thats how court cases usually work.
Unfortunately theres no way of knowing, and thats what everyone objects to.
There is one quite commonly used way of knowing if someone is guilty of a crime, its not perfect, but it seems to work ok most of the time - a trial with a jury.
Hell, it doesn't even have to be a perfect world. We seemed to be managing alright until Bush came to power...
I meant there was no way of us knowing (or more accurately judging) since there has been no trial, defence presented, or evidence presented (beyond torture confessions).
They are innocent. They have not been convicted of any crime.
If the evidence is so compelling they should get them carted off to The Hague. As they haven't been tried I can only assume that the evidence isn't all that compelling after all.