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Least most the other home nations did well
Don't think the formation worked too badly after the first quarter of the game but its the front partnership thats cost us these last 2 games.
I've said many times Rooney n Crouch can't play together, I said it after the last game and I'm saying it again now. We need an Owen/Defoe type player to get behind n stretch the defence. Carrick had no where to ping balls to cos both Rooney and Crouch looking for it at their feet. Defoe med an impact straight away n it stretched the Croats and made them think about it, was too easy for them knowing England were never going to get in behind them cos Crouch jst doesn't have the pace.
We were shite but the 2-goals were both comedy, that short arse should have never got a header away n the less said about the 2nd goal the better i think. But that 2nd goal really did kill the game.
Carrick was shit (again), Lampard was shit (again), the only midfielder who wasn't awful was Parker.
And the reason why we didn't stretch the Croats was because knucklehead played five at the back- it's no wonder we didn't have any width or pace.
I always thought Sven did a lot better than he got credit for, and the performance of this moron proves it quite clearly already.
Lampard and Carrick were shite, why?? Because there was no-one for them to fucking pass to. Lamps n Carrick got the ball looked up for a Defoe/owen type player running in behind the defence, which is where you can cause teams problems and there was no-one cos both Crouch n Roon were both coming towards the player looking for balls into feet.
You laugh at me saying Defoe worried them but just prooves how little you know really. When Defoe came on didn't you notice the game open up?? Maybe worried was the wrong word but the Croats had a lot more to think about. Before Defoe came on they didn't have the slightest bit of worry about an attacking player getting in behind their defence because there was no-one there to do it. Carrick gets ball, looks up, Defoe making the run in behind, Carrick picks him out, excellent control by Defoe and the Croat defence were stretched for the VERY FIRST time in the game, 1 defender just got back and nudged it for a corner just before Defoe could unleash a shot. I know Defoe isn't Micheal Owen but fuck me he's better than a Crouch/Rooney combination. Either Crouch or Roon needs to play with a Defoe type player NOT together.
Another reason why we needed Defoe on from the start, when you play 3-5-2, its esssential you stretch them, allowing the wing backs to make their runs forward. We were nover gonna stretch them playing Roon n Crouch.
I thought it was going to end up as five at the back but it didn't at all, what game was you watching?? Whenever we had possession at the back it was a very spread out back 3 with Rio and Carragher going wide, Carragher actually advanced up the pitch quite regular and Cole was always up the pitch playing as a proper wing back. Neville was a bit less so, he was too deep most of the time. But it was only a back 5 when we were defending which is the how the system is meant to work, and even then it wasn't always a back 5 cos I remember numerous occasions when Rio/Terry/Carragher were fighting for balls at the full back positions.
Seriously were you watching the same game as me??
btw iv'e been saying rooney is crap for 2 years.
Come back Beckham plz.
Carrick is crap and Lampard is crap. Lampard in an England shirt does nothing except prove just how good Claude Makelele is. Fact.
I would have dropped Lampard and played 4-4-2. I'd have played the same defence (minus Carragher) but I'd have played Parker and Beckham in the centre of midfield, with SWP down the right and Downing or Etherington down the left (but only because Joe Cole and Lennon are injured). I wouldn't have Defoe anywhere near the England squad because he is rubbish- if he's so good why can't he get a game at mediocre Spurs? I would have probably played Bent instead of Rooney, but only because Andrew Johnson is injured.
I appreciate England are depleted- at least a third of my ideal first team is injured or suspended- but that is no justification for what happened last night. I didn't expect us to beat Croatia because they are a very good team, but I did expect us to fight.
A good passer would create space, and if there isn't any space would pass appropriately. Carrick just wangs it up to Crouch. I could do that.
As for Defoe, why should he start for England if he cannot hold down a place up front in a mid-table team? If he isn't good enough for bloody Spurs then he definitely isn't good enough for England.
I can't believe people want to defend the clown in charge now.
The 'only' problem Carrick has was that he did absolutely nothing all game, I can only remember him doing anything once in the whole 90 minutes, and that wasn't that good.
if he isn't going to help then waht is the point of him being on the pitch? I would much rather have Beckham than Carrick (or at least replacing Jenas in the squad), at least he can deliver a decent ball and not just make 5 yard horizontal passes.
Having said that people are over reacting enormously, especially concerning McLaren.
Neither of the goals was a result of the different formation and we were just as inept going forward against macedonia on Saturday as we were last night. I would say that he should have waited for a friendly to try out the nes fornation though.
The most notable thing McLaren did wrong is waiting until we were 2-0 down to make a change, and then he should have put Bent on rather than richardson (another player who should not be in the england squad)
Very true.
So it must come down to the manager (both) and the system. Carrick is the classiest midfielder we've got in my opinion (Gerrard is the best, but Carrick is the most polished). He can pick out excellent passes, play with both feet, and rarely gives the ball away, as he proved for Spurs last season (look how they're doing now he's gone). But he's a player that relies on the rest of the team playing well too. He can't force the wingers or forwards to make good runs for him. I think Carrick and Gerrard would be a good combination, because they're quite different. Similar to Gattuso and Pirlo in the centre for Italy, except that Gerrard would be more of an attacking threat than Gattuso.
He was absolutely shite last night, I don't know how you can defend him ahead of the other midfielders who were admittedly just as poor in that shambles of a system.
Carrick's not going to be able to do much when Crouch and Rooney are both running towards him. You need a striker running away from the midfield to get the best out of Carrick. You have no concept of a good midfielder if you think Carrick is 'crap'. Play Andy Johnson, Defoe or Bent alongside Rooney and you'll see a much more effective Carrick. Yet again Crouch shows he can only play against part-timers.
Why Crouch AND Rooney are both looking shite because they can't play together. Rooney needs a guy on the last man making them runs behind, just like Crouch does. The space between the midfield and Front man is where BOTH them play their best football, Crouch is never going to look good playing on the last man, hes slow as fuck, he needs to be in the gap with the ball played into him with people running off him.
That was a rather tongue in cheek statement about Crouch. I just don't think Crouch merits a place based on goals against shite opposition. He's never played well, never mind score against better opposition for England. I suppose I'm just sick of hearing the scouser 'current best striker in the world' shite. If you read my post I agreed that Rooney and Crouch can't play together. I said you need another Owen-esque striker such as Johnson, and I'd partner whoever it was with Rooney over Crouch any day.
I meant as in shooting and crossing from free kicks and corners. I agree that players need to be able to make good runs.
beckham at least poses that threat, which Carrik doesn't, hence why i would rather have Beckham than Carrick........
We still need that guy making the runs behind otherwise Beckham being on the pitch wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference in open play because he too would have only 5 yard passes available.
Which is why Beckham and Owen were so productive together. A ball playing midfielder needs that kind of striker, not Peter Crouch.
In patches we played some decent footie through the middle but it was only in patches.
Imagine 3-5-2
Rio....Terry.....Carragger
Neville...Hargreaves...Lamps.....Gerrard.....Cole (either Ash or Joe)
Rooney....Owen
Decent team on paper and could cause massive problems to opposition if we worked it well. I'd have Neville on the right because if we had another midfielder (say Becks) I think that could be too attacking against a quality side, Neville will keep the balance between defence and attack and then Ash or Joe would have more license to attack.
I do think we need another system to play yes, whether this is the right one i'm not too sure, but we did try it out with a lot of our regular starting 11 missing.
on that note paul robinson had a good game, 10/10 for effort
Replace Carragher with King and it would be better.
Carragher looked like he was going in Slow-mo last night....
Carrick is mediocre at best, he's vastly overrated and vastly overhyped. He couldn't even cut it in the first division with West Ham. How novel to see Addict wowing over the Man Utd players (if anyone merits dropping on current form its Rooney, not Crouch...at least Crouch sticks the ball in the net against the crap teams, which is more than Rooney is doing) as if they're world beaters, and anyone who doesn't join in the daisychain is "clueless" about football. His passing ability is overhyped (he can't pass it half as well as Jenas, for instance) and his tackling ability is non-existant. Useful for a central midfielder. I honestly reckon Fergie paid £15m too much for him (he sure isn't one and a half times better than Ronaldo, and he isn't four times better than Parker).
No top team has played with 3-5-2 for ten years, there's a reason for that.