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To be honest, I'm sure that every single smoker knows that smoking around other people isn't a great thing to do, they just come up with various reasons to try and justify it, some stronger than others.
People keep bitching about the smoking ban in private clubs - but I think a full ban is going to change the future of Britain. Its health, the strain on the health service and attitudes towards smoking are all going to be changed by this.
I think heavier taxation and increasing the smoking age (to 18 say) are going to be on the board soon. The nanny government is finally justifying its existence!!
You’re right, this ban is going to change the future of Britain. It sets a worrying precedent; it’s unsurprising however that this government which is obsessed with banning things is presiding over this latest intrusion into our lives. It’s ironic that one of the biggest cheerleaders were the Liberal Democrats; or illiberal Democrats as one commentator in the Guardian I believe termed them. There was absolutely nothing wrong with allowing separate rooms where feasible in public spaces and in private spaces allowing members to democratically vote on a ban. Given that those in favour of a ban have consistently used the pretext of polls showing overwhelming support for a ban surely a vote of members in private establishments wouldn’t have been a problem? Unless of course those polls were achieved by push polling and a largely inaccurate reflection of people that actually go to pubs and clubs.
Meanwhile it’s a tad amusing that some people are so thick that they want even heavier taxation on tobacco. I guess they’re oblivious to cigarette smuggling. Already no tax and duty is paid on 1 in 5 packets of cigarettes, that will only increase if the tax on cigarettes is further increased. Smokers also already pay more than their fair share, the amount of revenue from smokers far exceeds their cost to the NHS and British smokers pay the most in Europe for their smokes. And if I want to smoke I should be able to, the government has no right to make it ridiculously unaffordable. Also, three of the world’s five biggest tobacco companies are British – get rid of them and smokers here and non-smokers would see their taxes balloon.
With rights comes responsibilities. With your right to smoke comes the responsibility to not trigger asthma attacks in my wife, and with your right to smoke comes the responsibility to not give me cancer.
Go and tell it to Fiona Castle that her husband's life was worth less then your "right" to poison everyone in the same building.
Less than 20% of the population smoke. But how many businesses can afford to turn away 20% of their business knowing that the business next door will welcome them with open arms?
You can go outside for, ooh, 30 seconds if the urge to smoke is too great. It'll hardly ruin your night. I can't go to smoky places with my wife and her family, because it could kill them, and always causes serious discomfort.
Anyway, one question. What gives you the right to poison me, and give my wife and her family serious asthma attacks? What gives you the right to give Roy Castle cancer? I'm all ears.
Why is your smoking worth more than my life, and my wife's life, and my mother-in-law's life? Come on, justify yourselves.
People always bleat about rights. And it's strange how Aladdin- that defender of the environment and workers rights- doesn't seem to give a fuck about bar workers, who will be poisoned and killed just like Roy Castle was.
I am betting a fair few!
They won't enforce this ban until an employee takes them to court for damage to their health, and until the police hand out a few £2500 fines and liberate a few landlords from their licences.
It'll be the same as the licencing laws, they'll be big on it in the cities and small towns won't give two fucks.
Sadly true. Someone will get sued over it. Then there will be a crackdown. I did like that pub on the news that got an old bus for people to sit in and smoke outside though, and bought the drink out to them.
this bit right here
non smokers dont harm smokers by not smoking, though smokers do harm those around them when they light up, thats the major difference, until a total blanket ban is in place, though i dont agree with a total public ban, just in pubs and clubs, then people who smoke and people who dont smoke, can all sit around and get along nicely, without someone having to make the first move to make a healthy environment, of which 20% of the business would be lost to a place like yours, which still allowed smoking
Ban Smoking Tobacco completley.
And Legalise the herb.
Except nobody is forcing you to sit in that smoky room. There are other rooms that aren’t smoky. And everybody that works in a smoky pub was perfectly aware when they took the job that they’d be working somewhere smoky. From my experience anyway a lot of people that work in pubs and bars smoke, a lot more than average.
The link between passive smoking and cancer isn’t particularly strong; the risk really isn’t that grave. You’re an idiot if you think going to the pub a few times a week is going to vastly increase your chances of getting cancer.
In bingo halls a majority of people that go smoke. In many private clubs a majority of members smoke. Tell me – what’s wrong with separate rooms in pubs and a vote amongst members in private clubs?
Uhuh and why can’t they go somewhere that’s banned smoking outright? Or put up with separate areas which with decent ventilation are fine. Or why not separated rooms?
Interesting that you mention real ale as one of your interests. Enjoy it while it lasts. I was reading in my dad’s CAMRA thing how they predict this will hurt pubs – and in turn real ale.
I’ll say it again but nobody in favour of a ban has answered the following:
a) What is wrong with separated rooms?
b) If a majority of people support a ban why can’t members of private clubs have a democratic vote?
c) If this is about ‘protecting’ public health what about smokers who will according to research from UCL smoke more at home if they can’t at the pub? – This surely affecting children who can’t choose to go elsewhere. (Unlike Kermit and his beloved family who can choose to go to a non-smoking establishment).
how dare they?
how CAN they?
aren't you lot all for consenting adults ...etc etfucking cetra?
Same goes for cigar smoking rooms, not huge here but I know they have them in America and I guess a few private clubs and such must have them here? Like a hookah bar surely the point of the room is to smoke? A ban really is indefensible if these kinds of premises are included.
I’ve not read anything about these places being exempt so I’m guessing they are included? Madness truly if so, hopefully the Commons will take heed of Lords amendments.
Seeing as the non smoking majority are going to have to foot the bills for smokers health care in X years time no matter where they smoke, I think this is acceptable.
I'm sure there are smackheads out there saying that their use of drugs doesn't harm anyone - and maybeso, but I still have to pay my taxes and those taxes go towards that loser's healthcare/rehab/disability/dole ect and then when my parents get cancer the NHS simply doesn't have the means to help them because they are stretched so thin.
If smokers signed a disclaimer saying no matter what happens to their bodies they will go private, I won't have a beef.
And don't tell me fag tax covers the price of the problems they cause.
Your clear issues with drug addicts are irrelevant to a debate about the smoking ban; and I found that extremely offensive (and it showed you to have a complete lack of understanding and compassion).
Bollocks. And you've got a nerve to spout such lies when the exact opposite is true. Smokers through taxes and duties contribute over £7billion, their cost to the NHS is estimated to be £1.5billion.
the health service is actualty under strain from fat bastards but we aint going to ban burgers and mayo are we!
smokers pay seven billion quid a year in tax.
You have no more right to kill your employees than anyone else has.
And as the licensed trade cannot be trusted to look after its employees, the government has had to do it themselves. The licensed trade could have fought this off three years ago by bringing in a real and genuine alternative, but it didn't. It whinged and whined, and did nothing about the smoking issue, and continued to make pubs entirely open-plan.
Now it's been forced to protect its workers and customers. Good.
If I call it a private club, could I allow workers to build without hard hats? Cut asbestos without masks? Of course not. Either you're for the rights of employees to work in safe environments, or you're not.
I think entirely separate rooms would have been fine, providing that:
80% of accomodation is non-smoking.
Toilet or bar access is not through the smoking room.
Employees are not made to work in those rooms.
Segregated areas would not have been sufficient, as smoke doesn't tend to read the signs saying "no smoke past here".
I agree, an outright ban is a bit overkill, but given most pubs are open-plan these days, most pubs would have to ban anyway. And even with segregated rooms, there is still the real and significant danger to employees.
People won't smoke more at home. People won't not go to the pub because they can't smoke as well. It hasn't done any harm to any trade where the ban has been brought in, is Dublin a desert without any drink and without any pubs now, or not?
I agree, but eating a burger and fries doesn't give the person at the next table a potentially fatal asthma attack, does it?
For all smokers being branded anti-social I can’t think of any of the non-smokers on this board in favour of a ban that I’d ever want to have a drink with. MR on the other hand...:)
For people to demand smokers ‘go private’ instead of having NHS treatment when it’s smokers that prop up the NHS is outrageous. That people are unable to accept democracy and allow members of private clubs a chance to vote on a ban – instead demanding the government through threats of gigantic fines force a ban on everyone is disturbing. And in public places, there is absolutely no reason why where possible there cannot be separated rooms for smokers and non-smokers.
Just remember MR - while most Labour and LibDem MPs voted for a ban, most Tory MPs were against. (Although my MP who is Conservative unfortunately voted yes for which he's got an angry complaining letter from me).
The legislation I am imagining (to parallel this one) is not allowing obese people into McDonalds, but imagine the outcry.
But, I digress. More people definitely will be smoking at home, I feel I have a little authority/experience on this matter, being a smoker.
Smoke ruins the taste of the ale, which is the most shameful thing :yes:
Nope.
Most fags are already had in the home sat in front of the TV. That's my experience anyway with smokers.
Busy busy I will be but I don't like it on the civil liberties level.
I'm not quite sure why you are imagining that, because, as Kermit pointed out, if someone else goes into mcdonalds and has a burger, it doesn't generally give someone else a heart attack. The singular point about smoking is that it is impossible to have a cigarette around other people without it affecting them.
Unless you give all smokers their own personal environment suit to smoke in. Then it would be up to them.