David Irving up to his neck in Austria

Former Member · November 2005

Lawrence wrote:

I Do believe there was a "Holocaust" and that hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews died under the Thrid Reich, i just dont believe that it was a "conspiracy" that Hitler and company planned and executed.

Why put Holocaust in quotes then?

And of course the Wanasee Conference is well documented.

It might seem like ancient history but it isnt, in fact the Holocaust story grows and becomes more relevant as time passes away from the period, and this is where you might say my agenda lies.

Doesn't feel like ancient history to me. But I think we know your agenda is exposing the great zionist consporacy

I oppose what i see as the gravest issue of our time, Zionism and Racial Supremacism, with its control of the American senate, is slowly but surely bringing about World war Three

Oh look, what a suprise

and the Holocaust is being used as Zionisms "Sword and shield", let me refer you to Nahum Goldmann one time president of the World Jewish congress writing in 1978, "The Germans will have paid out a total of 80 Billion... without the German reperations that started coming through during the first ten years, as a state, Israel would not have half of its present infrastructure: All the trains in Israel are German, the ships are German, and the same goes for electrical installations and a great deal of Israels industry...and that is setting aside the individual pensions paid to survivors."

Fair do's - they did after all kill around 6m of them, so p'haps some sort of reperations are in order.

It doesnt end here, there is the emotional aspect, an even more powerful tool in many respects, because due to the Holocaust, Jewish and Israels agendas are now beyond any kind of criticism, which is a dangerous state of affairs - Challenge Israel for bombing a Refugee camp and killing children = Anti-Semetism = Mass muder.

The fact that some criticism of Israel has nothing to do with anti-semitism doesn't mean that all criticism of Israel is devoid of anti-semitism.

Former Member · November 2005

Blagsta wrote:

Although of course, the only people claiming this are themselves holocaust deniers. There is no other reference on the net to this apart from revisionist history sites.

We have a controlled media in the western world, and anyone caring to look exactly who runs it will soon realise why revisionist history isnt something that Joe Public is suppossed to know about

Former Member · November 2005

Lawrence wrote:

If you really do wish to see the Jewish historian and Holocaust skeptic David Cole's tour of Auchwitz and interview with Dr Joachim Piper, i believe it is easily available to see for free on the internet, Google , David Cole + Joachim Piper and im sure you'll find it quite easily. I have seen it and i can assure you Piper does admit this and much more!
Your the boss though, if you insist, i will go and find it.

Rather amusingly Joachim Peiper is (or rather was) an SS officer. His main claim to fame is that he was in charge of the units who massacred US PoWs during the Battle of the Bulge.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/joachim_peiper.htm

Freudian slip?

Former Member · November 2005

Yeah, go on, turn to Israel now. After all they are "illegally occupying Palestine". Unlike good old Britain - they would never go and invade a country and occupy it would they?
Oops - they are right now.

Zionism has nothing to do with world control, and Zionism existed long before the Holocaust. It is simply about returning the Jews to their homeland.

And as for the supposed occupation, Israel has no desire to control the world, and is even willing to return parts of the small land it controls if it were able to safely control its borders.

There are many in the middle-east who are just as bad as Hitler - they would also like to destroy Israel and the Jews but there is one problem - Israel has an army and will fight back. So all they can do is teach their children to blow themselves up - and they dare to cry foul when Israel fights back.

Go and have a look at my posts in the other topic about racism / fascism.

Former Member · November 2005

Admittedly their are related topics to this that would lead us down the road of of Israel's legimiacy, but this thread is for discussing the Irving issue and claims about the holocaust - let's leave the issues of the middle east and whether or not a giant lizard called general Zod is controlling the world for other threads.

Former Member · November 2005

Well ok, if you want, I could say that if somebody said that Napolean never existed they are entitled to their opinion and shouldn't be locked in jail for it, albeit that there is concrete evidence that he did exist.

The point is though that David Irving's holocaust denial, and the posts by Lawrence defending him, are very much tied into some concept of Jewish conspiracy.

And Israel is a major point of topic for the Holocaust in that had there been an Israel at the time it could never have happened the way it did. Ok, Jews might have been expelled from Eastern European countries but they'd have had somewhere to run.

It's only because my grandparents all escaped in time and that Hitler never managed to invade Britain that I am here.

Former Member · November 2005

I understand perfectly, and in the context it's fine, but I'd rather avoid the thread going too far down that line otherwise the debate, in my experience, will very quickly stop being about the issues around the holocaust and become a discussion of land settlement policy - which is fine in another thread, but would lose the direction of this one.

Former Member · November 2005

The David Cole video 61 minutes running time 45Mb,
Do not be put off by the website, as they say do not shoot the messenger, the political affiliations of whoever is irrelevant here, Cole simply tours Auschwitz and interviews tour guides and the Museums curator, Dr Piper.

Cole was hospitalized for making this film and is lucky to be still alive, as you are about to see, he singlehandedly demolishes all the myths surrounding Auchwitz, please do refute anything you consider to be untrue in this video.

*edited out

Former Member · November 2005

You'll have to find a website that doesn't break the following rule -

4. However, please don’t publish links to inappropriate websites (hateful, defamatory, illegal etc).

A quick look round that website showed a great deal of hate and racism. I'd suggest you find a source from something other than the white power website. If your claims are as legimate as you claim then I'm sure you'll have no problem.

Former Member · November 2005

No you are underestimating the colossal power of marxist Political correctness, I searched google using David Cole+video+Auschwitz, the video was widely available but after eight pages of links i couldnt find one website that would pass the PC test, dissent is outlawed, if we have learned nothing else from the arrest of Irving, along with a few other revisionists just lately, we have now learned that Freedom of speech in "western democracies" is a thing of the past.

Pssstt, NQA, i think you might be right at that Fruedian, (or should that be Fraudian) slip, Dr Piper's first name isnt Joachim, my aplogies.

Former Member · November 2005

regardless, this charity has rules about the material it publishes, and you'll need to follow them

Former Member · November 2005

we have now learned that Freedom of speech in "western democracies" is a thing of the past.

I think the thing is we also have freedom of listening. That is you can get sued for various reasons if you cause damage to other people.

I agree that it's stupid to arrest and imprison Irving, it gives credence to his claims. Why would they lock him up if there's no truth to his claims?

Would be a reasonable question to ask, if the answer wasn't so damn obvious. I pity those who believe in races.

Former Member · November 2005

Lawrence wrote:

We have a controlled media in the western world, and anyone caring to look exactly who runs it will soon realise why revisionist history isnt something that Joe Public is suppossed to know about

Yes, the internet is controlled by ZOG too isn't it?

You're sooo transparent.

Former Member · November 2005

Earl Purple wrote:

Yeah, go on, turn to Israel now. After all they are "illegally occupying Palestine". Unlike good old Britain - they would never go and invade a country and occupy it would they?
Oops - they are right now.

You are falling into the pidgeon hole trap by presuming im a "Far Right Extremist", i am certainly not about to begin defending Britains imperial past or present, after all it was the British government that gave us the Balfour declaration, the original act of betrayal against the Palestinian Christians and Arabs.

Zionism has nothing to do with world control, and Zionism existed long before the Holocaust. It is simply about returning the Jews to their homeland.

This particular subject deserves a thread alone, but all i'll do here is quote the modern founder of Israel, its first prime minister known as the "George Washington of Israel" David Ben Gurion when he was famously quoted in a 1962 edition of Look magazine declaring, "In Israel, the United nations (A trully united Nations) will build a shrine of the Prophets to serve the federated union of all continents: this will be the seat of the supreme court of mankind"

And as for the supposed occupation, Israel has no desire to control the world, and is even willing to return parts of the small land it controls if it were able to safely control its borders.

Dont merely focus on Israel, most Israelis are peaceful people who justr want to get on with their lives, its their leaders who are the problem now as always.
New York and Washington and the Neo-cons is where you should be really looking but again thats another story.

Former Member · November 2005

...and here we see the relationship between far right nutters and 9/11 conspiraloons...

Former Member · November 2005

Lawrence wrote:

You are falling into the pidgeon hole trap by presuming im a "Far Right Extremist", i am certainly not about to begin defending Britains imperial past or present, after all it was the British government that gave us the Balfour declaration, the original act of betrayal against the Palestinian Christians and Arabs.
This particular subject deserves a thread alone, but all i'll do here is quote the modern founder of Israel, its first prime minister known as the "George Washington of Israel" David Ben Gurion when he was famously quoted in a 1962 edition of Look magazine declaring, "In Israel, the United nations (A trully united Nations) will build a shrine of the Prophets to serve the federated union of all continents: this will be the seat of the supreme court of mankind"

Dont merely focus on Israel, most Israelis are peaceful people who justr want to get on with their lives, its their leaders who are the problem now as always.
New York and Washington and the Neo-cons is where you should be really looking but again thats another story.

and just to destroy your argument, the guy who ran austchwitz's testimony from the nuremberg trials

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest.html

Former Member · November 2005

wheresmyplacebo wrote:

and just to destroy your argument, the guy who ran austchwitz's testimony from the nuremberg trials

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest.html

Your on seriously dodgy ground using the Nuremberg show trials as evidence, it was at Nurmeberg that boxes of soap were presented as evidence of mass murder, and it was at Nuremberg where we were told that over 300.000 jews had been gassed at Dachau, today no one claims that one single gassing ever took place at Dachau. Very little of the evidence of Nurmeberg would stand up in a court of law today, Judge Edward Van Roden, a member of the Simpson army commission that investigated the methods used to extract information from German prisoners in a 1949 interview with both the "London Sunday pictorial" and the "Washington Daily news" gave an example of the kind of stuff that went on...."The investigators would put a black hood over the accussed's head and then punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him, beat him with rubber hoses...All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair."
And your really scraping the barrel by using the tortured "confessions" of Hoess, even the historian Christopher Browning writing in Vanity fair said...
Hoess was always a very weak and confused witness. The revisionists use him all the time for this reason, in order to try to discredit the memory of Auschwitz as a whole."
Hoess claimed that 2.5 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz, yet now nearly all of the accepted Holocaust "experts" say that figure was 1.2 -5 million gassed, why would Hoess lie? Hoess also claimed that there was also a Death camp in existence called Wolzek, no such camp has ever been found because it never existed. any decent judge would throw your evidence out the window if this was a court.

Former Member · November 2005

The Wolzek Paradox

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/wolzek-paradox/

Former Member · November 2005

Lawrence wrote:

Your on seriously dodgy ground using the Nuremberg show trials as evidence, it was at Nurmeberg that boxes of soap were presented as evidence of mass murder, and it was at Nuremberg where we were told that over 300.000 jews had been gassed at Dachau, today no one claims that one single gassing ever took place at Dachau. Very little of the evidence of Nurmeberg would stand up in a court of law today, Judge Edward Van Roden, a member of the Simpson army commission that investigated the methods used to extract information from German prisoners in a 1949 interview with both the "London Sunday pictorial" and the "Washington Daily news" gave an example of the kind of stuff that went on...."The investigators would put a black hood over the accussed's head and then punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him, beat him with rubber hoses...All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair."
And your really scraping the barrel by using the tortured "confessions" of Hoess, even the historian Christopher Browning writing in Vanity fair said...
Hoess was always a very weak and confused witness. The revisionists use him all the time for this reason, in order to try to discredit the memory of Auschwitz as a whole."
Hoess claimed that 2.5 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz, yet now nearly all of the accepted Holocaust "experts" say that figure was 1.2 -5 million gassed, why would Hoess lie? Hoess also claimed that there was also a Death camp in existence called Wolzek, no such camp has ever been found because it never existed. any decent judge would throw your evidence out the window if this was a court.

Source for any of the above. You also want to read Richard Overy's book 'Interrogations' Penguin,2001 - which gives detailed transcripts of many of the confessions. It includes one by Dieter Wislicency (a senior deputy to Eichman)

It contains the following

DW - On table 3, the figure mentioned 1.6m dead is absolutely too low.

Interrogator - But remember this is 1943.

DW - Then in that case, it is possible the figure is right.

I - What was the final figure?

DW - I am convinced that with the exception of a few thousands of Polish Jews found alive in concentration camps, every single Polish Jewish individual has been killed'

David Irving up to his neck in Austria

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