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David Irving up to his neck in Austria

Irving arrested on Holocaust Denial charges

Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke... :D

Or what a pity it'd be if he had to spend the next 20 years in jail.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kinda ironic given Austrians tend to elect them to the top offices in the land

    http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/2624_13.asp
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Obviously the Austrian fascists did their homework a bit better than Irving regarding the law.

    Irving is truly the lowest form of scum. He actually has the cheek of suing anyone who questions his claims or who calls him what he clearly is: a fucking Nazi apologist twunt.

    Even though he lost a lawsuit against some other writer, he still pursued one against the Guardian newspaper afterwards. I don't know what came of it, I can only hope the little shit lost that one as well.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I believe that no mainstream publisher would touch his work after the courtcase - leading him to threaten to take Penguin to court to make them publish his works, on the grounds that he couldn't aford to pay them their costs unless they published his books and gave him royalties :lol:

    Though he does prove that not all racists are uneducated or thick...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Welcome news as he is a truly nasty bit of work.

    I thought he was barred from visiting Austria anyway. I know quite a few countries have banned him from visiting. It’s unfortunate that we cannot do the same as he is embarrassingly a British citizen.

    While propagandistic for extreme anti-Semitism Holocaust denial as vile and disgusting as it is should not I believe be a crime. I don’t think freedom of speech should stop at Holocaust denial. It’s difficult in that inciting racial hatred is a crime and a constraint on free speech and a necessary one, as Holocaust denial can effectively be the same thing it’s difficult to justify one being legal and one not. (I don’t believe Holocaust denial is a crime in this country). However, I’m uncomfortable with jailing people for denying the Holocaust despite those that profess such views being very disturbing people.

    Either way for Irving, it’s a crime in Austria and he knew that so deserves whatever he gets.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well the holocaust did happen but 6 million Jews did not die.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    omfg you nazi!!!!!11one. die
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    David Irvings A cunt I laughed out loud when I heard this.

    I may be unusual but British (Neo) Nazis realy piss me off much more than German ones, as there not only racists but traitors as well, we went to war with them for freedom practicaly brankrupted ourselvs in the process lost lots of lives.
    And then cunts like Irving who calls him self British is a suporter of Hitler (Youve shook the hand that shook the hand of the Furher) says the Jews bought the Holocause on them selves. How he's got the nerve to pretend to be a british gent is beyond me Cravern little tratious cunt a discrace to Britain, If i met him I realy would kick the shit out of him.
    On a side note its interesting that the Holocaust deniers will deny it happened in one breath in the next say it should be done again or it diddnt go far enough.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't quite get the smilies etc......

    I find it quite horrifying that someone could be arrested for the 'crime' of holocaust denial in a supposedly civilised European nation.

    How on earth can you justify jailing someone for that?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In many countries, if not most, racist abuse is a crime punishable by fines and/or jail.

    In some countries Nazi apologism is also a crime punishable by fines and/or jail.

    Couldn't be simpler, really. He broke the law, he's facing the consequences.

    And the smilies are simply because the man's a cunt.

    I don't think many people minded at the time that Al Capone was jailed for tax fraud, do you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm glad that I live in a country where holocaust denial isn't a crime - and freedom of speech is still allowed.

    Irving is still a cunt, who ignores all the historical evidence.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Man's a twat. And an idiot.

    Shouldn't be imprisoned for it though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    I'm glad that I live in a country where holocaust denial isn't a crime - and freedom of speech is still allowed.
    Yeah but Austria, together with Germany, was at the centre of Nazism. A very disturbing past. You cannot blame them for wanting to eradicate any hint of support or even apologism for such monstruous regime.

    Frankly I don't see much difference from banning racist hatred talk and banning nazi/fascist talk. They're both as odiuos as each other. But then I have always thought 'freedoms' ought to stop at the door of fascism/nazism, and that their supporters shouldn't have the same privileges and rights as the rest of us. They're subhuman scum outside society.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Yeah but Austria, together with Germany, was at the centre of Nazism. A very disturbing past. You cannot blame them for wanting to eradicate any hint of support or even apologism for such monstruous regime.

    I agree, but I'm not sure there tactics actually work, especially given the amount of neo-nazis in Germany. Also holocaust denial isn't neccessarily the same as supporting Nazism. It is possible to claim that the Nazi camps were not deliberately designed as death camps, but concentration camps in their proper sense (ie to concentrate people) and the deaths were due to typhus etc. Now personally I don't believe that, but then I don't believe the Soviet Unions camps were holiday rest homes either - but claiming they were shouldn't be a crime.
    Frankly I don't see much difference from banning racist hatred talk and banning nazi/fascist talk. They're both as odiuos as each other. But then I have always thought 'freedoms' ought to stop at the door of fascism/nazism, and that their supporters shouldn't have the same privileges and rights as the rest of us.

    Look at the paragraph again It doesn't take much imagination for someone to phrase it so that the people it is referring to our Jews or Freemasons or Communists or Christians or people who vote Tory.
    They're subhuman scum outside society

    Funnily enough almost an exact description of how the Nazis used to refer to the Jews...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    I don't quite get the smilies etc......

    I find it quite horrifying that someone could be arrested for the 'crime' of holocaust denial in a supposedly civilised European nation.

    How on earth can you justify jailing someone for that?



    germany and austria have these laws for historical reasons - there was problems about a hitler waxwork in a german waxworks
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Look at the paragraph again It doesn't take much imagination for someone to phrase it so that the people it is referring to our Jews or Freemasons or Communists or Christians or people who vote Tory.
    Only a distinction can be made by anyone between fascist/Nazis and the rest of us. They go beyond the "simply undesirable". They are on a different league to anything else on the planet. And they should be treated as such.


    Funnily enough almost an exact description of how the Nazis used to refer to the Jews...
    But you, me and the entre population of the world (bar nazis themselves perhaps, and even so... ) knows they were wrong.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But all the same arguments could be (and were) made by the Nazis against their political enemies and other 'undesirables'. Distasteful as it is people should be allowed to voice their views. The rest of us can think they're cunts and ignore them, but freedom of speech must apply to those whose views we fundamentally disagree with or its worth nothing at all...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Well the holocaust did happen but 6 million Jews did not die.

    :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    But all the same arguments could be (and were) made by the Nazis against their political enemies and other 'undesirables'. Distasteful as it is people should be allowed to voice their views. The rest of us can think they're cunts and ignore them, but freedom of speech must apply to those whose views we fundamentally disagree with or its worth nothing at all...



    yes i fully agree however germany and austria aren't my country and well all i can say is i think its stupid as their countries still have have neo nazis in their realms- they just avoid the prosecution
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :confused:

    I'm pretty sure the 6 million figure is an exaggeration

    Still doesn't take away the horrors of the holocaust or the significance of it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Only a distinction can be made by anyone between fascist/Nazis and the rest of us. They go beyond the "simply undesirable". They are on a different league to anything else on the planet. And they should be treated as such.

    I dont think so. I dont like the BNP but I completely think they deserve all the same rights and responsibilities everyone else has.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    germany and austria have these laws for historical reasons - there was problems about a hitler waxwork in a german waxworks

    Doesn't matter really, they are still wrong.

    All laws are there for 'historical reasons', a lot of them shouldn't be there at all though......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    But all the same arguments could be (and were) made by the Nazis against their political enemies and other 'undesirables'. Distasteful as it is people should be allowed to voice their views. The rest of us can think they're cunts and ignore them, but freedom of speech must apply to those whose views we fundamentally disagree with or its worth nothing at all...
    Yes well, I might be being intolerant here but as I said earlier their ideology and beliefs are so vile they simply don't qualify as part of society, and should expect no rights or freedoms. And morevoer, I am right to say this but they were wrong to suggest the same of others. And that is an undeniable fact that requires no further proof or endorsement.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Yes well, I might be being intolerant here but as I said earlier their ideology and beliefs are so vile they simply don't qualify as part of society, and should expect no rights or freedoms.

    How far would you go? internal exile? prison? execution without trial?
    And morevoer, I am right to say this but they were wrong to suggest the same of others. And that is an undeniable fact that requires no further proof or endorsement

    And if all others think they are right and that those who disagree should be silenced? Its easy to say that the Tories should be allowed freedom of speech, or the Labour Party, or mainstream Muslims or mainstream Christians. But freedom of speech doesn't mean anything unless it also covers Nazis, religious fanatics or others we disagree with.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    How far would you go? internal exile? prison? execution without trial?
    No, nothing like that. But I would ensure there are laws in place to ensure they don't do any shit-stirring whatsover. And if they did they can rot in jail.

    And if all others think they are right and that those who disagree should be silenced? Its easy to say that the Tories should be allowed freedom of speech, or the Labour Party, or mainstream Muslims or mainstream Christians. But freedom of speech doesn't mean anything unless it also covers Nazis, religious fanatics or others we disagree with.
    We'll have to agree to disagree there. I simply believe a line can be drawn between them and us, even those of us we disagree with and consider particularly unpleasant. I simply see that lot as on a different league to anyone else.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    I'm pretty sure the 6 million figure is an exaggeration

    Still doesn't take away the horrors of the holocaust or the significance of it.

    you better watch out, you might have an angry mob at your doorstep soon
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    We'll have to agree to disagree there. I simply believe a line can be drawn between them and us, even those of us we disagree with and consider particularly unpleasant. I simply see that lot as on a different league to anyone else.

    But banning them makes them seem far more powerful than they are and is virtually always counter productive.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah I know... can't help it though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would you call yourself a Liberal, Aladdin?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    But banning them makes them seem far more powerful than they are and is virtually always counter productive.

    True. Although rightly if incitement of racial hatred is a consequence of somebody’s ‘free speech’ they are breaking the law. This is a necessary constraint to freedom of speech. A white supremacist encouraging people to kill black people cannot be tolerated, nor can a Muslim extremist targeting impressionable youth to attack Jews or gays or whatever. I don't think Holocaust denial automatically incorporates incitement of racial hatred, although it frequently does which is Aladdin's justification I think.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    edit: oops
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