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Would depend what you count as evidence. For some people the teleological and cosmological arguments are. Although regardless of the philosophical arguments people have made to attempt to prove the existence of Gd for many faith alone is enough.
no........what i'm saying is that to ask for proof of god's existence is to misunderstand the entire point, if you didn't need faith and you could see god with your own eyes then what would be the point of free will and choice? that is what god has given us, you obviously don't understand the whole concept of adam and eve and the apple tree.........never mind.
noone's forcing you to have this debate blagsta but i know you love to have the last word........i'm sorry if you feel patronised, i think my point is a valid one.......life isn't always logical is it? and i don't see what's sexist (in a derrogatory way) about my remark, i think most blokes would agree that girls are fickle and vice versa........it's called free thought, don't try and stifle me with your political correctness please.
More circular arguing.
Did I ever say life was logical? I'm well aware that people are often irrational, in fact I've mentioned it on here enough times if you actually bothered to read my posts. Where logic is required is when attempting to argue your point. Your entire argument is "there is no evidence for god because he wants it that way, therefore thats evidence", which is just fucking nuts.
P.S.
What the hell has "political correctness" got to do with it?
eta
And as to why your comment was sexist - well first of all, you wrote "life isn't always logical blagsta, just like girls and religion" then went on to claim that what you actually meant was " think most blokes would agree that girls are fickle and vice versa". Two things - fickle is not the same as not being logical. So you're actually claiming in your second reply not to have said the first thing - can you be more honest next time?
Secondly - calling women illogical is part of how women have been oppressed by patriarchy. Women have been othered by Western society, i.e. defined by what men aren't. Men are logical, women are emotional. Men are strong, women are weak. Men are active, women are passive etc etc. So you stating that girls are illogical is part of that. People are often illogical. Not just "girls" (another patronising term).
well excuse me if i misinterpreted your 'patronising sexist fuck' comment as an attempt to imply i am somehow stereotyping all girls as dizzy and emotional, which i am not......
so you agree that people and life can be irrational, yet you want clear rational evidence of god's existence.......? i don't think the average person's brain could even grasp the enormity of god/the creator if faced with it, it's beyond our comprehension..........i am not saying that lack of evidence is evidence, i am saying you cannot have evidence of something which cannot be classified or categorised, because to attempt to do so would be sheer arrogance........but that pretty much sums you up when discussing religion doesn't it. :wave: ......i do wonder sometimes how you're not on my ignore list, and vice versa......i think you enjoy it really.
See my edit above as to why you actually are doing precisely that.
Fucks sake, more circular nonsense and dishonesty. Do you ever bother reading what you write?
P.S.
You're the arrogant one. Thats what faith is - arrogance. Claiming to have special knowledge that others aren't privy to.
Nice twisting of my words there... :rolleyes: Where the fuck have I said that?
Let me explain it again, as clear as I can: believing in God has NOTHING to do with claiming God talks to you and advises you on your job. Anyone who claims God talks to them is either lying on purpose or deluded/mentally ill.
God doesn't speak to people and advise them on their jobs and tasks. And you won't find religious person who is of sound mind, not your average worshipper, not the Archbishop of Canterbury, not the Pope himself who will claim any different.
Such claims have NOTHING to do with believing in God.
Mr pot... mr. kettle is here to see you.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,3604,1587523,00.html
Especially this one:
"Was this the same God who gives orders to terrorist suicide bombers?"
see now we are getting into gender roles and that is a completely different argument, i have made my view clear on this before, men and women are different.......men are not better or superior, just different.......this is why i mentioned political correctness, because it's not PC to say we are not equal in every sense of the word, if we were we'd all be androgenous ffs......anyways.....
i think i express myself rather well actually, and i'm satisfied with my coherence on this thread especially as i was wrecked last night......could you elaborate on the dishonesty bit....?
oh i'm the arrogant one? faith isn't arrogance, it's acceptance that not everything can be put into a neat little box and explained away by science, which is man's attempt to prove his infallibility and deny that in reality we know very little about our whole existence, gravity, space, DNA, etc......to pretend otherwise is arrogance.........just pretend for argument's sake that there is a creator, do you really think you could comprehend how he made it all? are you that clever.......? you are just stubborn and unwilling to entertain the possibility that we didn't just come from nowhere, some big bang millions of years ago that spawned life.........to me that is implausible and arrogant.
I don't claim to have special knowledge that other's arent privy to, we are all privy to it if you just have an open mind.......i was raised a christian but for years i had a lot of doubts and veered away from god, i certainly didn't find happiness but i thought i'm gonna do what the hell i want........got bored of that eventually, asked god to clarify a few things for me, and i don't claim to be any saint but i have been a lot happier since i let god back into my life.......don't worry i know how much that makes an atheist cringe, that's why i take great pleasure in saying it.
No, I'm not talking about gender roles. I'm talking about your comment. At least have the good grace to be honest about what you write. And who has ever argued that men and women aren't different? Quote them. More dishonesty from you. :mad:
Who's argued that? Quote it.
Who is pretending otherwise? Quote them.
Occam's Razor again.
Yes you do. You claim to know that God exists.
More arrogance.
Its seems to have made you quite dishonest in debates about it. Not very Christian of you.
definition of fickle
fick·le (fĭk'əl)
adj.
Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious.
definition of illogical
il·log·i·cal (ĭ-lŏj'ĭ-kəl)
adj.
Contradicting or disregarding the principles of logic.
Without logic; senseless.
i would say the two are fairly synonymous, maybe you need an english lesson......i hope that's not too patronising of me to say so.
good god man i'm not trying to oppress women, give the paranoia a rest.......
hello? you argue it when you ask for scientific evidence of a creator....
go and ask any scientist if they believe in god, 99% of the time you will have your answer......
cop out.........again.
know yes, but not in the sense that i can touch him or see him, i merely feel his presence and guidance, and thus believe in a higher power.....
so now it's arrogant to have an open mind?.......all christians are arrogant?
you still haven't clarified the dishonesty bit.......but don't bother on my account, it's quite obvious we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things
Errrmm...you seem to have some problems yourself with English. They don't mean the same thing. Not by a long shot.
You didn't actually understand what I wrote did you? Look up Simone de Beauvoir sometime.
Quote me.
Quote them.
You don't actually know what I mean by Occam's Razor do you?
Yes and I can sense the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy. Then the drugs wore off.
Now, thats not what I actually said is it? More dishonesty from you.
I didn't say that either.
Yeah, you are a tad confused.
You're claiming I've said things that I didn't, you're denying you said things that you said and you're attributing thoughts to people with no evidence. Oh, but you don't require evidence do you? You have "faith". :rolleyes:
Oh the irony!
You appear to be making a category error. Look again at the defintion of fickle. Its all about people's affections and emotions - not things that can be claimed to be ruled by logic in the first place. So to think that illogical can be used in this context is to entirely misunderstand the English language.
.
No, not everyone shares my view I have never claimed otherwise. However, Occam's Razor is about choosing the most likely explanation. Now to me, the most likely explanation is that the physical laws of the universe came about through purely physical processes, however I am not claiming that we understand these. I think its just a more likely explanation that invoking a supernatural being that proves its own existence by hiding its existence. I might as well believe that Santa Claus done it. But yes, I'm well aware that not everyone thinks this way - however if you're going to debate these things then clear thinking helps, as does actually being honest about what people have said. You don't even have the good grace to admit that you can't back up your assertions that I said this or scientists think that. I find that, along with your "faith" that you are right about god to be the height of arrogance.