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What is a Neocon?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again, those documents are built on perception. Are they not? I mean, yes some things have without a doubt happened, but the eyes we choose to observe these with can vary all according to the chosen source. Get the drill?

    And you have lost the plot by thinking that there can be any division that bears out in the real world. Metamerism occurs in more than just colour.

    Being Zionist is impossible, the same as any linkage between 2 seperate humans is impossible. A ridiculous idea, with no basis in fact.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    Again, those documents are built on perception. Are they not? I mean, yes some things have without a doubt happened, but the eyes we choose to observe these with can vary all according to the chosen source. Get the drill?

    The neo-cons are arrogant enough to detail their illicit desires on their own website:
    Bombing Iraq Isn't Enough

    William Kristol & Robert Kagan
    The New York Times
    January 30, 1998

    Saddam Hussein must go. This imperative may seem too simple for some experts and too daunting for the Clinton Administration. But if the United States is committed, as the President said in his State of the Union Message, to insuring that the Iraqi leader never again uses weapons of mass destruction, the only way to achieve that goal is to remove Mr. Hussein and his regime from power. Any policy short of that will fail.

    The good news is this: The Administration has abandoned efforts to win over the Iraqi leader with various carrots. It is clear that Mr. Hussein wants his weapons of mass destruction more than he wants oil revenue or relief for hungry Iraqi children. Now the Administration is reportedly planning military action -- a three- or four-day bombing campaign against Iraqi weapons sites and other strategic targets. But the bad news is that this too will fail. In fact, when the dust settles, we may be in worse shape than we are today.

    We all know that they were pushing to go into Iraq long before 9/11, that the first response by Rumsfeld, within 5 hours of the 9/11 attack, was to tell his officials to draw up plans for attacking Iraq.......

    We also know that Rumsfeld was one of the signatories of the PNAC Statement of Principles in 1997.

    And, this week, they're still trying to prove a link between Iraq and Al-Qaida

    So, we can use the neo-cons documents to see exactly what it is they're rooting for, and how they have pushed for a war with Iraq that has ended up being totally counter-productive.

    ETA:
    BTW I could only find that phony sharon quote on stormfront.org. Have any reputable sources for that?

    Isn't it time that that duvdevan got his google fixed? Stormfront comes at the end of page 2....... One of the things about neo-cons and zionists is that they are arrogant enough to say shit like this, thats why the quote is credible - you only have to look at how America treats Israel after all.....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    And you have lost the plot by thinking that there can be any division that bears out in the real world. Metamerism occurs in more than just colour.

    Being Zionist is impossible, the same as any linkage between 2 seperate humans is impossible. A ridiculous idea, with no basis in fact.

    Don't get the first paragraph.

    And I completely disagree with you on the latter. Guess that most here will.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ftp, define a zionist please...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You don't know what a zionist is?

    :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't get the first paragraph.

    No two people sense things exactly the same way. As colour is a property of your perception, so is everything else that you sense. Things don't feel "cold" or "hot" you feel them as "cold" or "hot".
    And I completely disagree with you on the latter. Guess that most here will.

    Then they would be wrong.

    What material fact makes someone "jewish"?

    Is it microwaves that connect them? Or perhaps some chemical property? Perhaps a type of radiation?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You don't know what a zionist is?

    :confused:

    No, I don't.
    Kindly explain it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You don't know what a zionist is?

    :confused:
    Actually, it'd be helpful to have a definate definition of what's being discussed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The PNAC aim seems to be getting rid of Saddam, which was done. Saddams downfall is mourned only by Baathists. Is this their aim, clandy, to get rid of Saddam?

    Is that their aim/illicit ends?

    I would also love to hear ftp definition of what a zionist is, considering he is quoting one in his sig. Ftp is a real patriot.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    No two people sense things exactly the same way. As colour is a property of your perception, so is everything else that you sense. Things don't feel "cold" or "hot" you feel them as "cold" or "hot".



    Then they would be wrong.

    What material fact makes someone "jewish"?

    Is it microwaves that connect them? Or perhaps some chemical property? Perhaps a type of radiation?

    What connects them is the fact that they share a history. Same in partnerships really. People share some sort of common bond, in the Jews case it is a history.

    Regarding the first part, I thought we already concluded this :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What connects them is the fact that they share a history. Same in partnerships really. People share some sort of common bond, in the Jews case it is a history.

    I am guessing that they have a history because they are "jews" and are "jewish" because they have a history, right? Catch 22.

    Double bind's lead to schizophrenia, y'know.

    So there is no real world connection then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    According to you there's no real world connection to anything, which is fine as a philosophical point, but does make political debate rather difficult...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    No, I don't.
    Kindly explain it.

    Apparently you're one

    :yes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    According to you there's no real world connection to anything, which is fine as a philosophical point, but does make political debate rather difficult...

    It isn't philosophy it's fact.

    And it takes the focus away from discussing trivia such as "race", "nation" etc and puts it where it should be -

    Why do you get taught such rubbish?

    Who benefits from these kinds of beliefs?

    Is it in your self interest to believe you are somehow connected to people who have nothing to do with you and apart from people who have nothing to do with you, based on arbitary and imposed fiction?

    And so on....It's not a difficult realisation to see that all political power comes first from fiction and then from a gun.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    That is not a definition though, is it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    That is not a definition though, is it?

    Well, I'm just wondering what the point of defining the term zionist to a self-defined zionist might be.

    It also seems somewhat strange that you would describe yourself as a zionist when you don't know what the term means.

    :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Zionism is the movement to create and support a state of "zion" or Israel.

    Is zion Jerusalem or is it a particular holy site?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The neo-cons are arrogant enough to detail their illicit desires on their own website:

    Great. Lets hope all their aims are fulfilled soon.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I'm just wondering what the point of defining the term zionist to a self-defined zionist might be.

    It also seems somewhat strange that you would describe yourself as a zionist when you don't know what the term means.

    :)

    What seems strange is that you won't define the term...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I'm still wondering why you want a definition........

    Anyways - have this definition:
    A Zionist is a person who accepts the principle that the State of Israel belongs not only to its citizens, but also to the entire Jewish people.

    ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah yes, decrying abuse of power is arrogance is it MoK?

    No. Arrogance is the assumption that you are right and anyone who disagrees with you just isn't informed enough.

    What you miss is that we may be informed enough, but come to a different conclusion.

    Either one of us could be wrong, yet you have never accepted that the person who is wrong could be you.
    Yet defence of warmongering ideologues such as you seem to increasingly demonstrate, is humility.

    No, it's about presenting balance.

    You may have noted over the last few years that I will argue different perspectives on the same issues. I will condemn Bush and I will defend him (for example)... even when I don't personally hold the view.
    I'll side with the consistent application of principle and historic actualities.

    Thank you for underlining my point.

    What you refer to as "actualities", I refer to as "opinion". I thought you understood how to present historical "facts". Perhaps you need to start first grade history again. It was something I learned a long time ago. It's not just the "fact" that you look at but the source for the "fact". That way you can make a personal assessment on the reliability and bias of that source.

    At that point you come down to your own interpretation and opinion.

    TBH, just to add. I find it difficult to accept lectures on principles, and the basis of "right" and "wrong", from someone who apparently believes it acceptable to stand and watch whilst genocide is being committed. That view being on the basis that it is happening within a nations border and that "international law" (which doesn't in reality exist) protects those borders.
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