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What is a Neocon?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Most message boards have someone like Clandestine.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah, one had to wonder when Wendy would revert to playing the grammar nazi, as if her posts are the hallmarks of grammatical perfection.

    The fact that you avoid the truth at all costs and have been doing so regardless of the documented facts presented time and again over the years, is all an intellectually honest mind needs to see you for the blinkered ideologue that you are, Wendy.

    As for use of the English language, do enlighten us with your vast experience.

    edited to add: I might remind you that these boards and others like them are outlets for one's personal views, not professional endeavours. If tThe Site wished to pay me for posting, you might have a case to make.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy

    Are you actually disagreeing with his content or his presentation, on this thread?

    :confused:

    You keep referring to "uncredited sources" from the past, but you haven't really put up any significant argument against what he has to say about neo-cons on this thread which is, after all, about neo-cons.

    It seems to me that he has summed up the neo-con position very adequately......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    just as most have many more like yourself minimi. How sad that inbalance is for the maintenance of truly informed debate.

    But then dumbing down is in fashion.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Translation: "I am really clever, totally unbiased and no one knows it. Please lick my arse i taste good."
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote:
    Translation: "I am really clever, totally unbiased and no one knows it. Please lick my arse i taste good."

    STRAWMAN!!!!!

    And a bad one at that.

    ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That wasn't an arguement, therefore not a "strawman".
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah, one had to wonder when Wendy would revert to playing the grammer nazi, as if her posts are the hallmarks of grammatical perfection.

    The fact that you avoid the truth at all costs and have been doing so regardless of the documented facts presented time and again over the years, is all an intellectually honest mind needs to see you for the blinkered ideologue that you are, Wendy.

    As for use of the English language, do enlighten us with your vast experience.

    Sorry can't do. My English is nothing to boast about. And I have never done so. Just state that your structure and rhetorics weih down any extraordinary vocabulary you might have. As if you try too hard.
    And no, I don't avoid a truth. I rather embrace another one than you do.

    This is like in Symposium, where Sokrates criticises Agathon for his empty rhetorics (in your case vocabulary), and where Eryksimachos is just plain arrogant - Then again I am no Plato nor Sokrates :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minim38

    Thats true - you didn't put up an argument - you just dishonestly presented something that you said was a trabslation of what he said - and of course it wasn't.

    You didn't even try to deal with his criticism of your styleee either.

    Did you?

    :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy

    Are you actually disagreeing with his content or his presentation, on this thread?

    :confused:

    You keep referring to "uncredited sources" from the past, but you haven't really put up any significant argument against what he has to say about neo-cons on this thread which is, after all, about neo-cons.

    It seems to me that he has summed up the neo-con position very adequately......

    Disagreeing with his content, which is only worsened by his presentation :)

    And no, you are right, I haven't commented on anything regarding the neo-cons as frankly my knowledge about them is very basic, and I didn't involve myself in the points about Zionism being a factor etc etc etc as I don't really feel for it now, if that is what you're refering to.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I never said i was unbiased. No human is, minimi. Perhaps your habit of adopting whatever bandwagon term suits the evasive efforts of your ilk, "unbiased" now being the rage, has caused you to miss that important fact.

    Bias is not a basis for attacking the substance of an argument. But then Neocons delight in such strawman exercises so as to avoid facing the lack of historic legitimacy behind their ideological positions.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minim38

    Thats true - you didn't put up an argument - you just dishonestly presented something that you said was a trabslation of what he said - and of course it wasn't.

    You didn't even try to deal with his criticism of your styleee either.

    Did you?

    :)

    Well i wasn't going too because i found it funny. I never actually said i disagreed with anything he said (besides peak oil in another thread), infact he is spot on about the neo cons*. He is also right about "But then dumbing down is in fashion". I said "Stauss" he farted half a dozen paragraphs explaining it all, so I just left it as one insulting criticism against mine.

    *and Israel
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The day you present any substantive evidentiary argument to prove my analysis flawed, Wendy, is the day your "disagreement" will amount to anything more than willful denial of political reality. What you wish to believe and what IS, unfortunately for you, are light years apart.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The day you present any substantive evidentiary argument to prove my analysis flawed, Wendy, is the day your "disagreement" will amount to anything more than willful denial of political reality. What you wish to believe and what IS, unfortunately for you, are light years apart.

    So you have patented reality?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, arrogance.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The point is quite clear Wendy (or indeed i should say "Jacq"), and should you ever daign to present a legitimate supported discreditation of the many points youve routinely evaded over the years, we might actually have a debate for the first time ever.

    As for reality, no i dont hold the patent. I merely recognise it for what it is rather than revising it to fit some hand-me-down ideological preference.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah minimi, not even original enough to find your own term. You must really enjoy your perch on the bandwagon. ;)

    Sadly I don't hold the patent on that either. I might be obscenely wealthy otherwise.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Now, are our resident thread derailers quite finished so we can actually return to the original topic of the thread?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That wasn't an arguement, therefore not a "strawman".

    Explain please - in my "strawman" thread for preference.
    So you have patented reality?

    Now this a good fucking idea. I could make trillions from resale rights alone!!!

    Did you mean reality reality or perceptive reality? Doesn't matter, that's $5 to me!!!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Explain please - in my "strawman" thread for preference.
    # Present only a portion of the opponent's arguments (often a weak one), refute it, and pretend that all of their arguments have been refuted.
    # Present the opponent's argument in weakened form, refute it, and pretend that the original has been refuted.
    # Present a misrepresentation of the opponent's position, refute it, and pretend that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.

    I was just intending on being rude/derailing the thread but it is a strawman. Freethepeople is correct.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The point is quite clear Wendy (or indeed i should say "Jacq"), and should you ever daign to present a legitimate supported discreditation of the many points youve routinely evaded over the years, we might actually have a debate for the first time ever.

    As for reality, no i dont hold the patent. I merely recognise it for what it is rather than revising it to fit some hand-me-down ideological preference.

    Wendy/Jacq/God, your choice...

    Obviously you don't recognise reality for what it is, when you don't include the factor which is perceptions that gives reality a whole lot of facets.
    You'd be a fool to believe that you sit with the universale truth of how reality is.

    Small test really...

    What color is the dress on the right?
    s2004-7.jpg
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What color is the dress on the right?

    Well, right of who?

    And you have fucked up already, because colour isn't a property of the dress, it's a property of your perception of the dress. Oh and it's not a dress, it's an image of a dress.(And so forth...)

    I used to work as a color-matcher and metamerism is one of those wacky things that makes all racism look like the toy of fools.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Well, right of who?

    And you have fucked up already, because colour isn't a property of the dress, it's a property of your perception of the dress. Oh and it's not a dress, it's an image of a dress.(And so forth...)

    I used to work as a color-matcher and metamerism is one of those wacky things that makes all racism look like the toy of fools.

    Now, explain all that to Clandestine.

    My Chemistry teacher always used to go crazy when we had to state what color whatever blend had turned into. He said that was the reason girls shouldn't be allowed entrance to the lab :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lol. Mine said that too. :thumb:

    :lol::lol::lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What are the neocons illicit ends duv?

    ruling cabal.

    quash all organised dissent that might threaten their aims.

    As for the Zionist connection, you missed the key architects of the neocon hijacking of Washington, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Elliott Abrams, David Frum, Irving Kristol (often referred to as a founding godfather of the movement's core ideological positions) and his son William Kristol. All hardcore Likudnik zionists in key positions of power and influence inside the beltway and all linked to key Israeli-centric interests. A clear case of conflict of national interests and loyalties if ever there was one.

    What are their aims/illicit ends? Please answer concisely, and briefly if you can.

    I read your rant, no mention of aims. Sure getting rid of constitutional protections etc, but why?

    Your dual-loyalty smear is not suprising to hear, Pat Buchanan likes talking about that as well. More neocons who are not jewish: Michael Novak, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Frank Gaffney, and Max Boot.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Youre arguing apples and oranges again Jacq. Political reality is that which is rooted in documented, verifiable fact and consistent application of principle. Facts and principles which you and your ilk would like to call "conspiracy theories" or otherwise dismiss when they expose the lies and revisionism upon which your preferred worldview depends.

    Once again, shall we we resume discussion of the topic to which this thread was intended or shall we have three more pages of your diversionary blather?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Youve had your answer duv. That you are incapable or unwilling to comprehend what is clearly set out in response to your question only shows how intractible you prefer to remain.

    And yes, there are many non-Jewish Neocons, however the central binding aspect they share is a deeply rooted adherence to Zionism (or must we remind you that Zionism is equally subscribed to by many fundamentalist "Christians" as well).

    The control and intimidation exerted by the Zionist lobby in Washington has been documented for decades, Neoconservatism and its control of all but the Judicial Branch (though soon enough to be accomplished as things are going) is merely the coming of age of that behind the scenes manipulation.

    Even your hero Ariel "The War Criminal" Sharon can acknowledge that reality:
    "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
    -- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All I want is a brief answer, clandy. You have NOT answered, sorry.

    I was joking about ZOG but do you believe in ZOG clandy?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupied_Government

    What is a Likudnik Zionist? Is that a Likudnik who voted against disengagement, or a Likudnik like Sharon who pushed it through against the majority wishes of the Likud?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BTW I could only find that phony sharon quote on stormfront.org. Have any reputable sources for that?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Youre arguing apples and oranges again Jacq. Political reality is that which is rooted in documented, verifiable fact and consistent application of principle. Facts and principles which you and your ilk would like to call "conspiracy theories" or otherwise dismiss when they expose the lies and revisionism upon which your preferred worldview depends.

    Once again, shall we we resume discussion of the topic to which this thread was intended or shall we have three more pages of your diversionary blather?

    Again, those documents are built on perception. Are they not? I mean, yes some things have without a doubt happened, but the eyes we choose to observe these with can vary all according to the chosen source. Get the drill?

    So no, I have merely tried to prove a point to deaf ears and closed eyes. Maybe it's time YOU began to open your eyes? Not with the meaning of accepting others point of view, but just as much as ackowledge that they are as legitimite as yours? Or are you taking the totalitarian stand here?
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